Engine will crank over and die out

Tiny
JONNEY WEST
  • MEMBER
  • 1996 OLDSMOBILE CIERA
  • 6 CYL
  • FWD
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 36,000 MILES
My 1996 olds ciera has 36,000 miles this car is like new however there is a major problem. The car will start and run fine for days. However when you shutoff the eng and come back out to restart it it will crank over and die out this will go on for around 6 or 7 cranks then the car will start and run fine. However this doesn't happen all the time.I replaced the fuel pump filter and fuel pump electrical solenoid the check eng light does not come on at all no codes are present.

Also when you go out to start the car to let the eng warm up it will run fine then all the suden it sounds like it sucking masive amounts of air then it stalls out however it will restat then run fine sorry for the spelling can you help me on this matter, one more thing the moter has a ticking noise in the front of the moter when cold sounds like a lifterbut the noise goes away when warm thanks so much jonney west
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Thursday, October 16th, 2008 AT 5:12 PM

10 Replies

Tiny
MERLIN2021
  • EXPERT
You may have a vacuum leak, get a can of spray gumout, spray the vac lines and maniflod area, when the idle changes, youve found the leak! You want the engine running and spray on the outside but do direct the stream onto the hoses, if it is a vacuum leak, the engine idle will change speed, then you have detected a leak, repair the vacuum leak and see how it runs! If that doesnt do it, you may need a new idle air control valve, it's bolted to the throttlebody
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Thursday, October 16th, 2008 AT 5:33 PM
Tiny
JONNEY WEST
  • MEMBER
I allready did this no vacum leaks it still doesnt answer my qestion please read once agin thank
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Thursday, October 16th, 2008 AT 5:39 PM
Tiny
MERLIN2021
  • EXPERT
It did not say you had check for vacuum leaks, so please disregard my answer?
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Thursday, October 16th, 2008 AT 5:57 PM
Tiny
JASONRAY
  • MEMBER
If I understand your post correctly, you've replaced the fuel filter. Have you replaced the PUMP? There's a check valve built into the pump in the tank. This valve prevents fuel from flowing back to the tank when the pump stops running. If the valve fails, when you shut the engine off, the fuel in the fuel lines, fuel rails at the injectors, etc. Empties back into the tank. This means that when you attempt to start the engine, you have to fill the lines and fuel rails up before the injectors have enough fuel to spray into the cylinder, thus starting the engine.

This could be causing your problem. Try this: Without spinning the motor over, turn the key on for 5 seconds. Turn it back off. Do that again. Turn it back off, leaving it off for about 5 seconds each time. Now try to start it. If it starts up and runs ok, that's it. What you're doing by cycling the key like that is turning the pump on and back off, building up pressure and fuel in the lines. If that doesn't do it, repost and we'll walk through something else.
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Thursday, October 16th, 2008 AT 6:00 PM
Tiny
JONNEY WEST
  • MEMBER
I already replaced the pump and filter and relay. This problem is intermittent restart the car runs fine ill shut of the car go in and do something I come back out and start the car it wants to start however dies out real quick. Ill try to start the car over and over around 10 times or so then it will start up and run fine grant you I have already replaced the pump in the tank and filter and relay I was going to replace the fuel pressure regulator. However I am thinking if this was bad the car wouldn't start at anytime. Would the mass air flow cause this it might not be called that now perhaps the idle air control is the wright thing on my car did this replace the mass air flow?

When the car is running it runs like a new one like I said this does not happen all the time also when I first start the car to warm up the engine it runs fine then all the sudden it sounds like it sucking large volume of air then it stalls out I restart it runs fine for days on end this only happens once in a while to. Also on warm up I hear a ticking noise that is quit load in the front of the motor then it goes away when it warms up this is all the time. This car only has 36,000 miles on it well if you can help.

Thanks jonney west
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Friday, October 17th, 2008 AT 10:23 AM
Tiny
MERLIN2021
  • EXPERT
There is a tech bulletin about fueling problems when the PCM switches from closed loop(cold) to open loop(warm) operation, this may be your problem the computer needs a re-flash at the dealer.

3.1L ENG IDLE SURGE ON COLD START - NEW FLASH PROM TECHNICAL SERVICE BULLETIN Reference Number(s): 67-65-31, 67-65-31A Related Ref Number(s): 67-65-31, 67-65-31A ARTICLE BEGINNING IDLE SURGE ON COLD START (NEW FLASH PROM) Model(s): 1996 Buick Century 1996 Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera Section: 6E - Engine Fuel & Emission Bulletin No: 67-65-31A Date: November, 1996 VEHICLES AFFECTED 1996 Buick Century and 1996 Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera with 3100 V6 engine (VIN M - RPO L82).

CONDITION Some owners may comment that the engine idle will fluctuate on the initial cold start of the day prior to the vehicle being shifted out of Park position. This typically occurs at the point the emission control system goes from "open" loop to "closed loop" status. This condition is most noticeable in warmer ambient temperatures. CAUSE The idle surge is caused by the difference in fueling between "open" and "closed" loop operation.

CORRECTION A new flash prom has been released to correct this condition. The following changes have been incorporated in the new flash prom: 1. Time delay increase to closed loop. 2. Smaller fueling corrections in the transition from open to closed loop. NOTE: This bulletin supersedes Technical Service Bulletin 67-65-31, dated September, 1996 and revises Correct Labor Operations Warranty Information. Page 1 of 2 3.1L ENG IDLE SURGE ON COLD START - NEW FLASH PROM -1996 Oldsmobile. 10/18/2008
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Saturday, October 18th, 2008 AT 7:14 AM
Tiny
JONNEY WEST
  • MEMBER
Iam aware of this tsb in fact the car has a sticker on it that referes to it well iam still having the same problem. Could a control module cause this or maybe a crank sensor I will tell you this this is getting to be a pain in the butt. What stumps me the most is there is no check engine light or codes. Well please read my question agin I realy tried to explain the proplem I have been having thanks jonney
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Sunday, October 19th, 2008 AT 1:45 PM
Tiny
JASONRAY
  • MEMBER
That large amount of air you hear being sucked in is the Idle Control solenoid at work. This happens when the engine leans out(runs out of fuel). The computer is trying to compensate by adding air to keep it running. This could be a sign that you are running out of gas for some reason. Not necessarilly in the tank but through the injectors. That TSB that was mentioned could be of some help. Read it closely and see if it pertains to you. If, in fact the computer is intermittently having a problem switching from OPEN loop to CLOSED loop, maybe that will help. If you have access to a fuel pressure guage, hook it up and watch it when the vehicle fails again. When you hear that sucking sound, see what the guage says. You may be losing pressure. If so, we'll try to help you figure out WHY!
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Sunday, October 19th, 2008 AT 5:38 PM
Tiny
JONNEY WEST
  • MEMBER
I have already done this there is enough pressure.I compleatly understand what you are saying, however this is not the problem I replaced the mass air flow and the car seams to be doing fine now it has been running great for arond 2 days now I will keep everyone informed. Thanks jonney
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Tuesday, October 21st, 2008 AT 10:53 AM
Tiny
MERLIN2021
  • EXPERT
It's a good possibility, MAF does contol injector pulse width.
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Tuesday, October 21st, 2008 AT 1:09 PM

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