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Flat brake pedal after rear axle replaced

Tiny
DEALERSHIPPY
  • MEMBER
  • 1998 FORD WINDSTAR
  • 3.8L
  • 6 CYL
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 109,000 MILES
Took my vehicle in for axle recall issue. It had nothing wrong with brakes except the ABS light. Five years ago, that was tested as just faulty light and at the same time it was tested, master brake cylinder replaced and brakes lines. Brakes were great.

Dealership called up saying a lines was damaged by rust when the axle was replaced. Tried to get me to pay to have a third party fix it saying the brake lines were pieced etc. (I am a girl). I had the receipt from the master mechanic that replaced the lines. So then they called next day and said was fixed.

Pedal going down to floor now and all my power steering fluid was empty plus window was off track and would not close.
They towed it back to shop and said I had to pay for $130.00 diagnostic because they were sure its the ABS, but if its their fault they would fix it.

So they write me to say, right rear hub and sensor are rusted part numbers: F58Z-2C204-BA (SENSOR), 512149 (REAR HUB ASSY).

HCU VALVES PART#2F2Z-2C219-BA

Then they email again saying correction to HCU Part: HCU OEM PART# 7F222C215AAM

I think they damaged the rear hub and this is what is making the pedal soft. I had taken my van to AutoZone and had it coded prior to towing it to Ford for the recall and the only codes there were for two holes in my exhaust.

Do you think they damaged my ABS valves, or could they just be a little worn and they are using it to make this "not their fault"?

It took me over a month to force them to do the recall issue.
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Saturday, August 19th, 2017 AT 2:03 PM

12 Replies

Tiny
STEVE W.
  • MECHANIC
  • 12,948 POSTS
If the ABS light was on there was a problem. There is no such animal as a "faulty light".
From the sound of the description your van is showing its age and the brake lines are rusted, which is very common. I would also believe that the lines were pieced together, a lot of shops do not like to make complete lines. Instead they buy the ones that are already flared and couple them together to the length they need. Those lines come in multiple quality levels, I have seen year old ones that were rotted and others that were ten years old and clean.

AutoZone does not scan for ABS codes so they would not see ABS codes but if the light was on you have an ABS problem.

A bad control unit is common and it is likely that the bad sensor could have damaged the HCU as well. And a bad HCU can easily cause a low pedal.
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Saturday, August 19th, 2017 AT 5:40 PM
Tiny
DEALERSHIPPY
  • MEMBER
  • 6 POSTS
I told you what the codes are that the dealership gave and I also told you the brake lines were completely replaced. They gave me what was left of the spool, so they were completely replace. I have been under the vehicle many times.

There was no problem with the brakes at all until I had the axel done.
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Saturday, August 19th, 2017 AT 6:22 PM
Tiny
HARRY P
  • MECHANIC
  • 2,293 POSTS
1) The codes that AutoZone gave you were from the engine computer, not the ABS computer. Their scanner cannot and will not get codes from the ABS computer. That scanner is about $200.00 and they used a $40.00 one on your car.

2) Just because they gave you unused spool of line does not necessarily mean that they replaced the whole line. They could and would easily piece it together and most people would never notice. It is not hard to piece it together like that, and because the lines run along frame rails and into places where they are pretty well protected, it would be that much harder to notice them.

3) Yes, there was a problem with the brakes. That is why the light was on. For years your ABS system has been telling you about an issue. Maybe a new issue (ie a second/third/fourth code) is now stored in the ABS computer telling you exactly where to look.

4) It is entirely possible that the mechanic messed something up or playing some kind of game with you, but I kind of doubt it. Most dealership shops are busy enough without drumming up more work.

5) If you live in a cold climate, five years could easily rust those brake lines pretty well and they would look pretty bad.
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Saturday, August 19th, 2017 AT 8:39 PM
Tiny
STEVE W.
  • MECHANIC
  • 12,948 POSTS
So the dealer replaced the lines? Or was that done as you stated five years ago?

Either way the faulty ABS unit is the likely issue for the bad pedal, and it was probably the same reason why you have had a "faulty light" as those lights come on when there is a problem with the ABS system. The hub and sensor would be replaced because they may have been another code in the system. You had good brakes because the moment the light came on the ABS system shut down. When the line failed the system needed to be bled to remove air. The problem is that on most vehicles the ABS system has to be working to do that. With yours off it could not be bled properly.
Now they are repairing the ABS system so the brakes will work correctly.

You gave part numbers, not ABS related trouble codes.

Good luck with the repairs and I hope you have a better day.
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Saturday, August 19th, 2017 AT 11:32 PM
Tiny
DEALERSHIPPY
  • MEMBER
  • 6 POSTS
They are not repairing the brakes.
1. The brakes were not damaged before the van went into the dealership for axle recall.
3. For over a month after the axle broke while vacationing, I was trapped
because I called the three dealers here and they referred me to each other each saying it would be at least a month to do the recall work because it was the last thing they would do.
4. Ford had to force them to do the work. When they finally did do the work they called me saying they slashed my brake line.
5. They changed the story to the brakes had an issue before they put the axel on.
6. They would not allow us to look at the van and had it towed back to the hotel. Then they put some green fluid in my power steering and emptied it out, it looked like they kicked the door so my window was off track and the brakes no longer worked.
7. It got towed back and they said they would diagnose the brakes if I paid them. They said if it was their fault they would pay the diagnose.
8. I have been told by the other mechanic who I took it to before I knew the axle was a recall issue that they most likely damaged this 512149 (rear hub assy), which would flat the pedal. They said "it was rusty" and that is the recall issue, the rust.
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Sunday, August 20th, 2017 AT 12:16 AM
Tiny
STEVE W.
  • MECHANIC
  • 12,948 POSTS
The mechanic you took it to is wrong. The recall puts two braces on the rear axle under the back, or it calls for axle replacement. However, if they replaced the rear axle the hubs and sensors would be replaced with it. They do not re-use the old parts.

You said the ABS light was on. "It had nothing wrong with brakes except the ABS light. Five years ago, that was tested as just faulty light and at the same time it was tested, master brake cylinder replaced and brakes lines."

Was the ABS light on before it went to the dealer?
If it was then the dealer is correct, your brakes ABS system had a problem.

Then you say " Dealership called up saying a lines was damaged by rust when the axle was replaced."

So now the dealer takes it in for the recall and you claim they did all this damage. Fine, file a police report and call Ford about it. Yelling at us does nothing.
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Sunday, August 20th, 2017 AT 1:12 AM
Tiny
DEALERSHIPPY
  • MEMBER
  • 6 POSTS
Hi, so this is the point. The odds of something going wrong on the ABS valves at the exact time the axle is replaced is like 999999 to 1. If you took the time to even Google 1998 Ford Windstar ABS light, you would see that the ABS light being on for no reason is very common.

You just said it right there. They were supposed to replace the hub and sensor when they replaced the axle. They did not and they were rusty so for sure it is this that is making the pedal low.

I was asking, but perhaps I did not make it clear, if the hub could cause a low brake pedal? Because I am sure the valves did not become an issue right when they changed the axle. I have Googled and it looks like it could but I wanted to ask here as a friend recommended I do.

As well, my father was always saying the new generation is horrible and each generation is worse than before. Caps were not considered shouting when I was getting the first personal computer they marketed to the general public. They were used for emphasis and so old people like me can see.

To me shouting is "Hey you!" That is what those things called "exclamation points" are for.
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Monday, August 21st, 2017 AT 1:41 PM
Tiny
DEALERSHIPPY
  • MEMBER
  • 6 POSTS
  • 1998 FORD WINDSTAR
  • 3.8L
  • 6 CYL
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 109,000 MILES
They did not replace rear hub assembly or sensor in back. They put rusty parts back on. Could rear hub assembly make pedal go low?
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Tuesday, August 22nd, 2017 AT 3:11 PM (Merged)
Tiny
MHPAUTOS
  • MECHANIC
  • 31,938 POSTS
The brake at that wheel may been bleeding, has this been done?
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Tuesday, August 22nd, 2017 AT 3:11 PM (Merged)
Tiny
HARRY P
  • MECHANIC
  • 2,293 POSTS
No. The hub assembly is not related to the brake pedal at all. If the bleeder line was opened for some reason then that could cause a weak pedal, but there is no reason to open it to just change a hub assembly.
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Tuesday, August 22nd, 2017 AT 3:11 PM (Merged)
Tiny
DEALERSHIPPY
  • MEMBER
  • 6 POSTS
Hi, What do you mean "just to change a hub assembly"? Hub assembly was just put back and not changed. Axle was replaced on recall.

Brakes were fine before axle replaced and they did something to make the pedal go flat. Master cylinder and lines were done professionally five years ago. Brake pads changed I think twice since then. The first pads were cheap and then I had better ones put on it. They still have a lot of meat on them.
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Tuesday, August 22nd, 2017 AT 3:11 PM (Merged)
Tiny
MHPAUTOS
  • MECHANIC
  • 31,938 POSTS
Do not assume anything. Check the bleeding you have no ideas as to what they may have done.
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Tuesday, August 22nd, 2017 AT 3:11 PM (Merged)

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