Fuel Pressure Specs?

Tiny
JEREMYLEFORT
  • MEMBER
  • 2003 FORD TAURUS
The other morning when I started my car it started like it normally does, however, when I shifted into gear I got about 10 feet and the car stalled. I was not able to restart the vehicle. Nine hours later, after work, I tried to start the vehicle again with no luck. I had it towed to a local shop who replaced an O2 sensor and the 6 spark plugs. The repair shop indicated their was some type of electrical problem that results in the fuel pressure jumping all around from 20 to 50, etc. The vehicle is running now, however, when attempting to start I have to put the gas pedal to the floor and really give it some gas to get it to start. Once started it idles fine but when shifting from park into a gear, the vehicle will stall. It sometimes takes several attempts to get the vehicle to go. I have to have my foot on the gas pedal when shifting out of park to give it some gas, otherwise it will stall. (Almost like driving a standard). The repair shop that replaced the spark plugs and the sensor said they were not able to fix the fuel pressure problem and that I should take it to a Ford dealer.

Also, about 6-7 months ago, an O2 sensor was replaced as was the fuel rail pressure sensor (not real sure what that is), as well as the fuel filter. This was done by the dealer as the result of the emission control light being illuminated. I never had the problems I have now before this work was done 6-7 months ago.

Any suggestions?
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Saturday, March 29th, 2008 AT 2:57 AM

34 Replies

Tiny
RASMATAZ
  • MECHANIC
  • 75,992 POSTS
Check the fuel pressure with and w/o vacuum-if you pull the vacuum line from the regulator and there's fuel in it-replace the regulator-also test out the idle air control speed motor/throttle position sensor and EGR valve-
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Saturday, March 29th, 2008 AT 4:08 AM
Tiny
JABRUNN
  • MEMBER
  • 12 POSTS
  • 2002 FORD TAURUS
Six cylinder front wheel drive automatic 161,000 miles.

My car has the 3.0L OHV engine. I have been experiencing a loss of power and "miss" at highway speeds since I have owned the vehicle. I own both the Ford shop manual and the Ford emission control and diagnostic manual. Both show different specs for my fuel pressure. The shop manual says 50-56 psi (350-380kpa). The emission diagnostic manual says 39-65 psi (270-450kpa), both koer. I have monitored the fuel pressure while driving with my scan tool and it stays near 270 kpa and fluctuates slightly over and below that number. Turning the A/C on is when the problem is most noticeable, and I do not see a rise in fuel pressure when I do. I am thinking I should check the fuel pump driver module as I have already replaced the pump with another unit (used). Also, what spec should I look at?
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Wednesday, October 23rd, 2019 AT 2:50 PM (Merged)
Tiny
WRENCHTECH
  • MECHANIC
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39-65 psi is the correct spec for the pulse width modulated system.
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Wednesday, October 23rd, 2019 AT 2:50 PM (Merged)
Tiny
JABRUNN
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So what is the 50-56 psi specs for in the Ford shop manual? Alldata. Com lists both of these specs on their site for this car.
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Wednesday, October 23rd, 2019 AT 2:50 PM (Merged)
Tiny
WRENCHTECH
  • MECHANIC
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The 55 to 60 spec is for a vehicle that does not have PWM fuel pressure.

I assume you did because you said you have a fuel pump driver module which is only used with PWM.
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Wednesday, October 23rd, 2019 AT 2:50 PM (Merged)
Tiny
JABRUNN
  • MEMBER
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So then is it normal for fuel pressure to stay at the bottom of the spec (270 kpa), fluctuating slightly up and down, though out the entire time you are driving? The fuel pressure stays steady on flat interstate, on hills, accelerating with the A/C on and off. Thanks for all your help.
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Wednesday, October 23rd, 2019 AT 2:50 PM (Merged)
Tiny
WRENCHTECH
  • MECHANIC
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Yes, that is the whole theory of that system. It adjusts to load. It has a vacuum sensor that feeds the PCM and it combines that info with speed, gear ratio, TPS, coolant temperature and air flow to make pressure decisions.
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Wednesday, October 23rd, 2019 AT 2:50 PM (Merged)
Tiny
JABRUNN
  • MEMBER
  • 12 POSTS
Thanks for all your help. I have one more question regarding this. I installed another fuel pump driver module and the fuel pressure went up to around 400 kpa at idle. I checked the pressure again with my scanner today at idle and got the same results. I checked the pressure with a manual gauge at the same time and got around 60 psi. I decided to drive the car and the more I drove the more the pressure dropped. I am baffled as I was sure the pressure would rise with load, as load increased while driving. I am just about at wits end on this. Thanks again.
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Wednesday, October 23rd, 2019 AT 2:50 PM (Merged)
Tiny
WRENCHTECH
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I think your forgetting temperature. It runs a richer mixture when the engine is cold so it would not surprise me that the pressure drops with engine heat. I think your worrying about nothing here. The PCM is programmed to look for problems and will usually find them before you.
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Wednesday, October 23rd, 2019 AT 2:50 PM (Merged)
Tiny
JABRUNN
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As far as the fuel pressure is concerned, I am sure you're right. I am just baffled at what is causing the car lose power (like a gently buck at highway speeds) and miss. All ignition components were tested at a local dealer and passed. I am going to put the vacuum pump I just purchased to use on Tuesday and begin checking for leaks. Thanks again. I really appreciate your help.
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Wednesday, October 23rd, 2019 AT 2:50 PM (Merged)
Tiny
WRENCHTECH
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I saw no mention of plugs, wires or coils in your history. Those would always be the first things to look at with symptoms like that. You should be able to use a scan tool on this and see the actual misfire counts for every cylinder.

Also, make sure what your feeling is not the TCC jumping in and out of overdrive. That can feel like a miss too.
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Wednesday, October 23rd, 2019 AT 2:50 PM (Merged)
Tiny
JABRUNN
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  • 12 POSTS
The plugs, wires and coil have been replaced. The original coil had a crack and was causing a misfire. I am not seeing any information about misfires with my scan tool. It shows everything as okay. I am noticing that it records the results of the diagnostic tests it runs on the EVAP system as sometimes high or low. I am going to check for vacuum leaks and take the vehicle to a transmission shop to make sure it is not the torque converter.
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Wednesday, October 23rd, 2019 AT 2:51 PM (Merged)
Tiny
BRYANK94
  • MEMBER
  • 2 POSTS
  • 2002 FORD TAURUS
  • 6 CYL
  • FWD
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 67,000 MILES
This problem intially started after the car struck on dog on the front right corner. After the initial impact my wife pulled over and shut the car off. Afterwards, she tried to start the car and it would not start. 15 minutes later it started with no problems, but over the last two weeks this problem persisted, starting and then not starting. One day She had filled up with gas and it would not start for 30 minutes at a gas station. Another day it would not start and we had to wait til the next morning for it to start( the car had an 1/8th of tank of gas at the time). We took it to an parts store and had the OBD II codes checked, no problems there. But once again the car would not start. The battery checked good and at no time had the fuel inertia switch ever activate. My questions are the following,
Is it the fuel pump, starter, or fuel pressure? If it is the fuel pressure, how do I fix the fuel pressure?
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Wednesday, October 23rd, 2019 AT 2:51 PM (Merged)
Tiny
BUDDYCRAIGG
  • MECHANIC
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Is the engine is turning over.
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Wednesday, October 23rd, 2019 AT 2:51 PM (Merged)
Tiny
BRYANK94
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  • 2 POSTS
The engine will turn over and run as any other day when I start it for the first time. No problems occur while driving either. After the vehicle is shut off and we try to restart it nothing happens apart from the electronics turnning on. It will not crank over nor do I hear the starter engage. No sounds whatsoever.
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Wednesday, October 23rd, 2019 AT 2:51 PM (Merged)
Tiny
BUDDYCRAIGG
  • MECHANIC
  • 2,262 POSTS
You are going to have to do some testing the next time it isn't working to find where the problem is.

Things it could be

starter solenoid
starter relay
park/neutral safety switch
ignition switch

i suggest we start with testing the solenoid.

While the engine is cool. Find your starter and notice the solenoid on it.
There will be the big battery cable going to it, and Then a smaller wire that energizes the solenoid.

Use a test light and probe that small wire,
have someone crank the engine over and you'll see the light come on.

Now you know where everything is and what the test light should do when everything is working.

We need to know if the test light comes on when the engine doesn't turn over.
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Wednesday, October 23rd, 2019 AT 2:51 PM (Merged)
Tiny
JON FRUETEL
  • MEMBER
  • 1 POST
I have the same car, same problem. Dealer told me it's my starter, too many amps. I've very skeptical that this is a correct diagnosis.
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Wednesday, October 23rd, 2019 AT 2:51 PM (Merged)
Tiny
CARPROS
  • MEMBER
  • 2 POSTS
  • 2000 FORD TAURUS
  • 100 MILES
2000 Ford Taurus wagon, **FLEX FUEL** V-6 engine running on regular E10. Began stalling intermittently. Would run rough for 30-60 seconds or so and then die, both while driving and while idling. Would restart just fine. Began happening more and more frequently and threw a Check Engine code (but I don't know what it was, repair shop says they “lost it”.) Then one morning it wouldn't start (mild Oregon climate 55F overnight). Had it towed to an independent repair shop. They read the code and measured fuel pressure at the fuel pressure test port (on the very far end of the fuel injection rail from the gas tank) at 3psi. They diagnosed a bad fuel pump and replaced. Told me it was ready to pick up. It had been sitting out overnight. When I picked it up, it wouldn't start. With lots of cranking it finally started but ran extremely rich. Strong smell of raw gas out the exhaust and clouds of fumes (not burned oil, just unburned, rich exhaust). Gave it back to the shop. They read code P0191 and diagnosed a bad fuel flow sensor (device right at the beginning of the fuel injection rail) and replaced, but it didn't affect the problem. It will still sometimes have trouble starting and run very rich when starting from cold (cold = 55F). Without touching the throttle, engine can be shut off and started again and it will be just fine. Shop doesn't know how to proceed. I walked through with them their diagnosis of the bad flow sensor. Upstream of the flow sensor is an oval-shaped metal enclosure with fuel lines going in and out, and an electrical connection. They didn't know what this device does (neither do I). I suspect it might be the electronic fuel pressure regulator.

It is unlikely that there would be two bad components at the same time in the fuel delivery system. I suspect that the bad fuel pump was a misdiagnosis, and the bad flow sensor is obviously a bad diagnosis. There are two TSBs that might be pertinent TSB14187 & TSB14041. But I don't understand completely the flex fuel system. What controls the fuel pressure to the fuel injection rail? What device senses the ethanol concentration of the fuel system? What is that oval box in the fuel line? What does the engine change in response to the ethanol concentration? What could be the true problem here that would fix the car?
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Wednesday, October 23rd, 2019 AT 2:52 PM (Merged)
Tiny
KHLOW2008
  • MECHANIC
  • 41,815 POSTS
Apart from the P0191, was any other trouble codes retrived? Seems there are a lot of unsolved problems for the flex fuel system
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Wednesday, October 23rd, 2019 AT 2:52 PM (Merged)
Tiny
CARPROS
  • MEMBER
  • 2 POSTS
The automotive forum link was interesting it shows that flex fuel issues can be very hard to troubleshoot. But nobody there was getting a P0191 code. That code was read by the repair shop; they didn’t mention any other codes along with it.

What is the description that goes with a P0191 code?

I know what basic elements need to be in the fuel supply system, but not what order they are in the Taurus. Do you guys have access to the vehicle manuals? Can you tell me how the components of the fuel system are laid out (what components, in what order, starting at the fuel pump and ending at the fuel injector)?
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Wednesday, October 23rd, 2019 AT 2:52 PM (Merged)

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