Will not start

Tiny
RASMATAZ
  • MEMBER
You need to turn the ignition switch On then check the voltage as suggested on the coil-
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Tuesday, December 20th, 2016 AT 10:45 AM (Merged)
Tiny
CJ MEDEVAC
  • EXPERT
BEEN SOAKING WET ALL DAY ERECTING MY MAMA A NEW WELL HOUSE (HOOOAAAH! INFANTRY WEATHER!)---SINCE I'VE BEEN BACK, I HAVE BEEN ON THAT STUPID MITCHELL 1 DEALEE ATTEMPTING TO GET 3 DIAGRAMS I WANT FOR THIS POST.I THINK I HAVE THE 1ST (IF IT WILL PROCESS IN PICS BELOW) IT IS THE VOLTAGE TEST. THE OTHER 2, I DO NOT KNOW IF THEY EVEN EXIST, FOR ME TO USE. ONE IS PRIMARY RESISTANCE TEST-OTHER IS SECONDARY RESISTANCE TEST. (I DO HAVE THEM IN A CHILTON'S MANUAL, BUT COPYING FROM THERE IS A COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT--I'D RATHER YOU WALK, THAN ME TO GET INTO SOME SORT OF TROUBLE AND COST ME OUT THE BUTT. TRYING TO HELP YOU!) RAZ. THANKS FOR THE INPUT, I MAY NEED YOU TO FIND THESE 2 DIAGRAMS, TESTING WITH VOLTMETER, PRIMARY AND SECONDARY RESISTANCE TESTS. MY GUT FEELING IS THE COIL NOW. BUT I DO NOT WANT HIM TO SPEND $$$, TILL WE ARE SURE. ALSO WANTED TO KNOW IF COIL HAD 12 VOLTS OF JUICE WHEN THERE WAS NO SPARK. TO KNOW WHETHER THE "EVIL" WAS BEFORE THE COIL OR AFTER. SO, HERE'S MY WORLD'S 1ST EVER MITCHELL ATTEMPTED PIC--THE MEDIC
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Tuesday, December 20th, 2016 AT 10:45 AM (Merged)
Tiny
RASMATAZ
  • MEMBER
Are you using IE 9 been having problem myself pulling MAPs and Coordinates out of there-won't give it at all-I've download it and it deadline my Mit1

Note: let me know if you want a subscription of Alldata for $150.00 for a life time link-up on papamike-this is not a drill so be advised. Let me know

Coil

Winding Resistance (ohms at 75 degrees F or 24 degrees C)

1982-88 w/TFI (EEC IV): Primary, 0.3-1.0; Secondary, 8000-11,500.

This objective is been dragging with the 50 miles road march-was the distributor DX'd if so check and test the pick-up coil-let me know soldier-carry on
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Tuesday, December 20th, 2016 AT 10:45 AM (Merged)
Tiny
CARADIODOC
  • EXPERT
Two suggestions. Try a new ignition coil, and check the vibration damper to see if the outer metal ring has come loose and turned. That will put the timing marks in the wrong place. It's actually rather common. The auto parts stores have entire catalogs full of new dampers.
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Tuesday, December 20th, 2016 AT 10:45 AM (Merged)
Tiny
CJ MEDEVAC
  • EXPERT
OK YA'LL---YOU KNOW I DO THIS AS A HOBBY--I DO NOT KNOW IT ALL--I SPENT A GREAT DEAL OF TIME LOOKING FOR THESE PICS--COULD NOT FIND--MADE MY OWN! / USED RAZ'S FIGURES (SO YA'LL COME TO ME IF YOU NEED SOMETHING MADE, SPENT LESS TIME MAKING, THAN LOOKING!) OK, SNIPER 198105. WAKE UP. YOU NOW HAVE A NEW VOLTMETER TRAINING AID!----SEND US RESULTS! I WILL ALSO POST BELOW THIS, HOW TO DO A CONTINUITY TEST TO CHECK YOUR DISTRIBUTOR (EVEN NEW STUFF CAN BE BAD! (MOSTLY HAPPENS TO ME!)---SEND RESULTS SOON--THE MEDIC
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Tuesday, December 20th, 2016 AT 10:45 AM (Merged)
Tiny
CJ MEDEVAC
  • EXPERT
WITHOUT A NOID LIGHT, THIS IS A WAY TO TEST YOUR DISTRIBUTOR---EVEN SHAKE/ PULL ON THE WIRING WHEN YOU TEST--MANY TIMES WIRES LEFT UNTIED AND FLOPPING AROUND WILL BREAK! (THIS TOO, CAN BE DONE WHILE RUNNING OR TRYING TO START, MAYBE TO FIND A SHORT, WITHOUT A METER)
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Tuesday, December 20th, 2016 AT 10:45 AM (Merged)
Tiny
SNIPER198105
  • MEMBER
Good class workin on some numbers for ya
is the key on or off when im testing my wires
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Tuesday, December 20th, 2016 AT 10:45 AM (Merged)
Tiny
CJ MEDEVAC
  • EXPERT
Key "ON" When checking voltage at POS Coil (Whole reason for the test, is power getting to that point, and how much)For the Primary and Secondary Tests, coil is completely loose from connector, no need for Key to be "On" No Need to be "on" when checking the Dist (it's disconnected anyway)Sorry, I assume too much, I shoulda put that in my pics-Thanks.I probably will go back and do that for my next victim!---The Medic
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Tuesday, December 20th, 2016 AT 10:45 AM (Merged)
Tiny
SNIPER198105
  • MEMBER
Ok key on, negative terminal on negative batt. Terminal and pos on the coil terminal. 12.0 even
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Tuesday, December 20th, 2016 AT 10:45 AM (Merged)
Tiny
CJ MEDEVAC
  • EXPERT
That's great---Assure me that you were not getting spark at the plugs when you did this test. If nothing else, crank him back up (if he will), till he dies. Test immediatelywhat about the coil, primary and secondary resistance tests.I really suspect the coil is your problem. But before I send you off to spend $$$. I just wanted to be sure. Nothin' like hearin ' you spent $20 on a part, and you discovered the connector on the ignition switch was loose! Caradiodoc suspects the same (his "Slipped" Harmonic Balancer theory is still a possibility. It happened on Jeep # 3 for me, seen it on other rigs too----What's the deal w/ coil tests?--The Medic
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Tuesday, December 20th, 2016 AT 10:45 AM (Merged)
Tiny
SNIPER198105
  • MEMBER
Ok coil test, volt meter on 20k ohms, secondary test 7.89. Primary test 0hms meter on 20, .3 im not finding a pick up coil to test.
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Tuesday, December 20th, 2016 AT 10:45 AM (Merged)
Tiny
CJ MEDEVAC
  • EXPERT
Sorry, working at Mama's house again--Sounds like the secondary resistance is not within the specs. Why don't you replace the coil now. I know if it were me, in your shoes, I would have already jumped the gun and done it already! I hope to read a "Smile" real soon, from you.--The Medic
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Tuesday, December 20th, 2016 AT 10:45 AM (Merged)
Tiny
CARADIODOC
  • EXPERT
Secondary resistance is irrelevant and isn't even tested very often except to verify the problem has been found. The resistance can be outside of normal specs and the coil can still be working fine. More importantly, there can be part of the plastic insulating housing breaking down letting the spark short internally rather than going to a spark plug. Once that happens, it will leave a carbon track behind that makes it even easier for the current to short out. That can also happen when it heats up and becomes more conductive.

A totally different problem, also possibly related to heat buildup, is an open circuit. You would have to catch that right away with the ohmmeter before it cooled down again. That is often caused by the tiny copper wire being wound tightly and pulling loose from the terminal is was soldered to internally, or there could be a hairline crack in the wire that gets bigger as the plastic housing warms up. When that gap is small enough, the spark can still jump it and the spark plug's gap. Usually that gap with its carbon track would show up as much higher than normal resistance.

If the resistance is significantly lower than it should be, the varnish has broken down that insulates each loop of wire from those next to it and some of the loops are shorted out. That reduces the maximum voltage it can produce. The number of shorted loops will change too with changes in heat, both from the engine and from internally-generated heat from the current flow. Most often this will cause a gradually decreasing maximum voltage capability that shows up as misfires at first when one spark plug requires more voltage to fire than the coil can deliver. Eventually more and more spark plugs misfire as the voltage capability of the coil continues to go down.

No one likes throwing parts at a problem but given all the testing and the things already done, I think it's time to throw a new ignition coil on it. Also, a Ford mechanic who taught a school I attended in the early 1990s stressed that if the ignition coil, pickup coil in the distributor, or the module on the side of the distributor were found to be defective, all three should be replaced. I can't remember the reason but it made sense at the time. You only have the coil left to replace out of those three.
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Tuesday, December 20th, 2016 AT 10:45 AM (Merged)
Tiny
RASMATAZ
  • MEMBER
Doc, I hope it raises an eyebrow-Curly, Moe and Larry one of them are responsible on this simple ford ignition system-I second that all the way on the coil theory, good explanation. Couldn't have said it any better-My last visit Adios! Amigos
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Tuesday, December 20th, 2016 AT 10:45 AM (Merged)
Tiny
WRENCHTECH
  • MEMBER
I think the reasoning behind changing all 3 is that excessive current draw from the coil is likely what would take out the module. Not sure what the pick up coil connection is though.
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Tuesday, December 20th, 2016 AT 10:45 AM (Merged)
Tiny
CARADIODOC
  • EXPERT
That would make sense. Wish I could remember. Darn old timer's disease!
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Tuesday, December 20th, 2016 AT 10:45 AM (Merged)
Tiny
SNIPER198105
  • MEMBER
I have changed all 3 and nothin, changed all three a while ago
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Tuesday, December 20th, 2016 AT 10:45 AM (Merged)
Tiny
CJ MEDEVAC
  • EXPERT
OK BIG RED 1, I was gonna stay away and see if anyone else could get you going. No one so far. I was looking thru this post a little slower (ain't no Jeep CJs to fix at the moment) I noticed the WAD OF WIRES sticking off of your IGNITION MODULE---totally unkempt, and-a-dangling! (Definitely not to Ranger Standards!)--Just for Sheets and Giggles, won't you pour in a tiny shot of fuel and have some one crank while you do some wire wiggling there. Perhaps grasp the wires one at a time and push them toward the Ignition module, while wiggling. Maybe you can find a broken internal copper wire, to repair.----Come with Positive Sitrep!---The Medic
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Tuesday, December 20th, 2016 AT 10:45 AM (Merged)
Tiny
SNIPER198105
  • MEMBER
She's runnin turns out that the stators in the first three distributors was bad. But I got another prob. It'll be titled stalls at stop signs. Look it up and see if ya can figure it out. Yea definatly not to ranger standards but gimme it runnin good for a bit and i"ll be sendin ya picks that are. Airborne!
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Tuesday, December 20th, 2016 AT 10:45 AM (Merged)
Tiny
CJ MEDEVAC
  • EXPERT
YOU CHECK ON "ON POST REC SERVICES GARAGE" FOR ASSISTANCE?--THE MEDIC
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Tuesday, December 20th, 2016 AT 10:45 AM (Merged)

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