Timing marks?

Tiny
HUNGARIAN1234
  • MEMBER
  • 1999 DODGE STRATUS
  • 4 CYL
  • FWD
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 90,000 MILES
The timing belt broke and after replacing it the car will not start. I checked the spark from the spark plug wires and while the engine is cranking there is no spark but the second you let off of the key you get one spark. I checked to be sure that the crank and cam sensors are plugged in as well. The Hayes book shows where to align the marks on all three sprockets so I'm sure that is correct unless I have to rotate the crank shaft sprocket one more time (which I have never done before). Any ideas?
Monday, August 17th, 2009 AT 10:01 PM

30 Replies

Tiny
BMRFIXIT
  • MECHANIC
  • 19,053 POSTS
Do not rotate camshaft or crankshaft after timing belt is removed, or engine damage may result.
this is the timing marks


https://www.2carpros.com/forum/automotive_pictures/99387_Graphic1_500.jpg



https://www.2carpros.com/forum/automotive_pictures/99387_Graphic2_243.jpg

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Thursday, September 10th, 2009 AT 8:05 PM
Tiny
HUNGARIAN1234
  • MEMBER
  • 6 POSTS
Yes, that is exactly how I lined up the timing marks (Hayes showed it this way too). For the life of me I cannot figure out why it doesn't have spark. Do you think the computer went dead?
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Thursday, September 10th, 2009 AT 9:11 PM
Tiny
CAMEXCO
  • MEMBER
  • 1 POST
I changed my timing belt
with pulleys waterpump and camshaft sealings.
That is a difficult job to do because of the steering bracket that
does not allow acces to rear camshaft pulley.
.
I did the all job with battery connected as I was obliged to remove crankshat pulley
by cranking the starter motor without the inlet manifold and its sensors (MAP and IAT).

Check several times the timing was OK by reving several time
the engine by hand, and then started it.

It started several times with pain with an ugly noise and stall.
And now it does not start anymore and there is no more sparking at plugs.
Check engine light was on each time the engine started and was off for the next attempt.

Steering belt not yet installed.

My timing is OK, and I wonder what did I bad!

Cannot read codes as my engine does not start anymore.

Ordered a crankshaft sensor at rockauto.
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Monday, September 21st, 2009 AT 4:59 AM
Tiny
RACERX11
  • MEMBER
  • 1 POST
  • 1999 DODGE STRATUS
  • 4 CYL
  • FWD
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 148,000 MILES
If my dodge stratus water pump is leaking, do I have to replace the timing belt and pulleys
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Friday, June 19th, 2020 AT 10:26 AM (Merged)
Tiny
CARADIODOC
  • MECHANIC
  • 33,729 POSTS
You don't HAVE to but it's penny-wise and dollar-foolish to not replace everything. Replacing the pump and replacing the belt are both very big and expensive jobs, and both require the exact same disassembly. Your mechanic is trying to save you money in the long run by combining both jobs. The only added cost will be for the extra parts. The timing belt has to come off to replace the water pump, and it would be silly to put the old belt back on.

By the way, Chrysler has relatively little trouble with timing belts, but if your car was a Honda, you would have had two broken belts and damaged valves by now. Their belts typically break at 65,000 miles, and their recommended replacement interval is 75,000 miles. Bent valves means at least $2000.00 in additional repairs besides the timing belt.

Caradiodoc
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Friday, June 19th, 2020 AT 10:26 AM (Merged)
Tiny
WADEAMCA
  • MEMBER
  • 3 POSTS
  • 1999 DODGE STRATUS
  • 6 CYL
  • FWD
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 160,000 MILES
'99 Dodge Stratus, 2.5 V6. About 9 months ago, car quit running. SIL (son-in-law) decided he would fix it. Don't know what all he did, but he couldn't get it to run. Instead of bringing it to me (I used to own the car and did all the maintenance on it for 8 years), he took it to his father. FIL (daughter's father-in-law) replaced the crankshaft position sensor, distributor, rotor, cap, timing belt. Still wouldn't run. After 8 months, SIL & FIL asked me to try.
Engine would crank but not run. Checked timing marks - with crankshaft timing mark pointed at TDC, 1/3/5 cam timing mark off by 3 teeth BTDC and 2/4/6 cam timing mark off by 2 teeth ATDC. No fire to the plugs. I re-replaced distributor (it was under parts warranty). Still no fire to the plugs. Replaced computer. Now engine would fire. Checked each plug - all terribly oil/carbon fouled. Replaced all plugs and wires (1/3/5 plug wires were crushed under intake plenum). Compression is 180 PSI each cylinder. I find no vacuum leak. Engine will run (and I use that 3-letter word very loosely), but accelerator pedal does nothing to increase engine speed and engine pops and wheezes constantly. I pulled the fuel line apart where it goes to the injector rack - it is getting fuel (gas will run out of the rack). I even tried starting fluid and propane in the intake but that didn't make any difference. Engine runs as if distributor was 180 degrees out of time - but crank and both cams point to TDC and rotor points to #1 distributor cap contact.
Is it possible to have the crank & cam timing marks dead-on, but still be out 180 degrees? Any other suggestions? What am I missing?
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Friday, June 19th, 2020 AT 10:26 AM (Merged)
Tiny
JDL
  • MECHANIC
  • 16,098 POSTS
Welcome to the forum, thanks for the donation. One possibility is the egr system causing a problem. I'd also check for codes, see if that points you in any particular direction. As far as timing issues, I'd have to look at it. Your compression spec looks ok to me.
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Friday, June 19th, 2020 AT 10:26 AM (Merged)
Tiny
WADEAMCA
  • MEMBER
  • 3 POSTS
Please explain how the EGR system would cause these problems (just so I'll understand). There are no codes and I have a code reader that would tell me what to look for. I'm out of ideas and am totally stumped. Even some of us old-schoolers run out of ideas. If this was a mid-60s SBC, it would be running like a clock right now (I just happen to have one - a '59 283 with a 700R4 behind it - on the frame rails of my '36 Hudson Terraplane 2-Door Sedan.
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Friday, June 19th, 2020 AT 10:26 AM (Merged)
Tiny
JDL
  • MECHANIC
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If the egr is leaking, you would be lucky if it idled at all. It should add exhaust gases only under higher rpm conditions. It was just a possibility.
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Friday, June 19th, 2020 AT 10:26 AM (Merged)
Tiny
WADEAMCA
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  • 3 POSTS
Turned out to be a bad Crankshaft Position Sensor. Re-replaced it this past Monday and the car runs (almost) like new.
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Friday, June 19th, 2020 AT 10:26 AM (Merged)
Tiny
JDL
  • MECHANIC
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Glad you got it going your way.
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Friday, June 19th, 2020 AT 10:26 AM (Merged)
Tiny
HARLEY BILL
  • MEMBER
  • 2 POSTS
  • 1998 DODGE STRATUS
  • 2.5L
  • V6
  • FWD
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 150,000 MILES
What is the proper procedure to realign camshaft and crankshaft timing belt positions with the car listed above with missing the timing belt?
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Friday, June 19th, 2020 AT 10:27 AM (Merged)
Tiny
CARADIODOC
  • MECHANIC
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You need a copy of the manufacturer's service manual for a job like this. Unfortunately I am unable to copy and paste the list of instructions from the online site. I was able to post the diagrams.

The tensioner needs to be removed and reset slowly in a vise, then insert a pin to hold it there while the belt is being installed.
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Friday, June 19th, 2020 AT 10:27 AM (Merged)
Tiny
HARLEY BILL
  • MEMBER
  • 2 POSTS
Thank you, CARADIODOC, for your help and quick response.

When replacing an existing timing belt one can turn the engine to top dead center (TDC) and align the timing marks, before removing the old belt, but in my circumstance the belt is missing and the cams and crankshaft are not on TDC.

It looks like the belt and adjuster were removed which allowed the right camshaft(closest to the firewall), to have turned( from valve spring tensions), and caused the belt to jump approximately seven teeth, rotating towards the firewall. The left cam and crankshaft remained in position, but not at TDC.

The crankshaft timing mark is pointed at five o'clock and the left camshaft pulley is pointed at three o'clock position, when viewing from the passenger side of engine towards the driver side.

I need the priority sequence and proper procedure to turn the individual shafts to reach the TDC alignment of timing marks, without any interference damage from valve to piston contact.

Can you give me the URL link to the manufacturers web page that has the procedure list of instructions.
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Friday, June 19th, 2020 AT 10:27 AM (Merged)
Tiny
DOCFIXIT
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This is an interference engine means if crank or cams are turned without timing belt properly aligned pistons will contact valves and bend them usually half of the valves are affected. So head needs to be removed valves replaced then aligned and reinstalled.
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Friday, June 19th, 2020 AT 10:27 AM (Merged)
Tiny
CARADIODOC
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Yup, Docfixit is right about this being a interference engine, but the bent valves depends on what happened. If the timing belt broke while the engine was running, some of the valves will be bent. If the engine was running, and someone just started a maintenance belt replacement procedure, the camshafts will turn a little but the valves will not be damaged.

There is no specific procedure like you are looking for to reset the camshafts. If the valves are not bent now, you are not going to bend them by turning things by hand, as long as you stop when you feel resistance. I prefer to rotate the crankshaft backward so the TDC mark is about a fifth of a revolution before actual TDC. That insures no piston is at top dead center. Rotate each camshaft to its timing mark. If valve spring pressure prevents it from staying there, use a bar through the sprocket to lock it in place. Now bring the crankshaft to top dead center, and install the belt.

Do not be surprised when one or both cam sprockets is off a tooth or two and you have to manipulate it to the right setting. When it appears to be right, rotate the crank sprocket two complete revolutions, always in the normal direction. Be aware the valves will hit the pistons if a cam sprocket is off by three teeth on some engines.

Also, be aware all the slack in the belt will be taken up by the tensioner pulley, on the backside of the engine. That is why it critical to never turn the crankshaft sprocket backward.
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Friday, June 19th, 2020 AT 10:27 AM (Merged)
Tiny
ROCKERHUD
  • MEMBER
  • 1 POST
  • 1998 DODGE STRATUS
  • 6 CYL
  • 4WD
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 150,000 MILES
I have a 98 Dodge Stratus (150k miles) and the timing belt broke yesterday while driving. As a result, some valves are bent and need to be replaced. Which is a big job. The kbb value of the car is a little under $4k. The repairs, including labor and parts, would cost me between $2k and $2.5k. If I were to sell this car in current condition to a person who repairs cars for a living so they could fix it and flip it for profit on their own time, what is a reasonable price for me to ask?
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Friday, June 19th, 2020 AT 10:27 AM (Merged)
Tiny
ZACKMAN
  • MECHANIC
  • 4,202 POSTS
It all depends on where you live. In my area, that particular car (with all the problems) will go for between ($500 - 800). A good running car (98 with 150K miles) will go for about $3K. Use kbb. Com as a starting point, but it is not absolute. You need to check your local ads for comparison.
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Friday, June 19th, 2020 AT 10:27 AM (Merged)
Tiny
MADMIKE1735
  • MECHANIC
  • 951 POSTS
  • 1997 DODGE STRATUS
  • 6 CYL
  • FWD
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 109,000 MILES
Just wondering if the timing belt needs to be pulled in order to remove the heads on this car. If so, can I have a timing diagram so I can see clearly where the timing marks are? Also. Any other information on doing this job will be helpful. Send what u know! Thanks, I appreciate it!
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Friday, June 19th, 2020 AT 10:27 AM (Merged)
Tiny
ZACKMAN
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https://www.2carpros.com/forum/automotive_pictures/55316_97strathead_1.jpg



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***I strongly urge that you get either a Chilton or Haynes manual handy to help you through the process. These manuals have more pictures and tips for DIY than the online manual meant for seasoned technicians.***
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Friday, June 19th, 2020 AT 10:27 AM (Merged)

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