Crank no start

Tiny
STARR ZIM HA
  • MEMBER
  • 2003 CHRYSLER PT CRUISER
  • 2.4L
  • 4 CYL
  • FWD
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 113,000 MILES
Cranks but wont start. I replaced cam sensor, oil sensor and engine coil. Car will crank but not turn over. Spent all day trying to get it to run even cleaned all connectors and disconnected the battery. No codes, no lights. Was driving when it first cut off and no noise just the oil light before it died.
Fiancee is a mechanic.
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Thursday, November 24th, 2016 AT 5:40 PM

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Tiny
CARADIODOC
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Disconnecting the battery never solves anything, and it erases any diagnostic fault codes, so that valuable information was lost, if there were any codes.

this guide will help us

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/car-cranks-but-wont-start

"Crank" and "turn over" are the same thing. By the parts you replaced, I can assume it cranks okay. What you need to do now is determine if the automatic shutdown, (ASD) relay is turning on. Find the wire that is the same color at the coil pack and at every injector. That typically is a dark green / orange wire, and back-probe that any place. You can use a digital voltmeter, but they often do not respond fast enough, so a test light works better. You will see twelve volts on that wire for one second when you turn on the ignition switch. What is important is if that voltage comes back during cranking. If it does not, the signal is missing from the camshaft position sensor or the crankshaft position sensor.

Very often a fault code for either the cam or crank sensor signal will only set while the stalled engine is coasting to a stop. Once erased, it may not set again during cranking. Then you need to use a scanner to view live data to see if either signal is missing. I use a Chrysler DRB3 scanner. That lists each sensor with a "No" or "Present". I do not know what that would look like on other scanners, but I am pretty sure they have a way to show the same information.
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Thursday, November 24th, 2016 AT 6:46 PM
Tiny
SPROCIT
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  • 2003 CHRYSLER PT CRUISER
Electrical problem
2003 Chrysler PT Cruiser 4 cyl Front Wheel Drive Manual

car died-replaced camshaft and crankshaft sensors
therei is no voltage to the coil. There is 12.65 voltage at asd relay but no volage at the other terminals on the coil connectors
The camshaft and crankshaft sensors have 5.1 vilts
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Thursday, May 14th, 2020 AT 1:30 PM (Merged)
Tiny
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Hi Sprocit. Welcome to the forum. When are you measuring the voltage on the coil? It should only have battery voltage for one second after turning on the ignition switch, then it will come back during engine rotation, (cranking or running).

Caradiodoc
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Thursday, May 14th, 2020 AT 1:30 PM (Merged)
Tiny
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The middle terminal with key on reads12.22 when cranking 11.22
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Thursday, May 14th, 2020 AT 1:30 PM (Merged)
Tiny
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So you DO have voltage to the coil. Do you have spark? If you do, but still have a no-start, have you checked for fuel pressure?

Caradiodoc
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Thursday, May 14th, 2020 AT 1:30 PM (Merged)
Tiny
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I don't have a gauge to check the fuel pressure but I can smell gas
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Thursday, May 14th, 2020 AT 1:30 PM (Merged)
Tiny
CARADIODOC
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If we're assuming the fuel pump and injectors are working, that means the camshaft and crankshaft position sensors are working and the automatic shutdown relay is turning on. If you have no spark, the likely suspects are the coil or the driver circuit in the Engine Computer. By the way, is this a single overhead cam engine?

Caradiodoc
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Thursday, May 14th, 2020 AT 1:30 PM (Merged)
Tiny
JOHNK59
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  • 2003 CHRYSLER PT CRUISER
  • 201,000 MILES
The camshaft position sensor was replaced @ 201,000. 2 weeks later, the car stalled in traffic and would not restart. No DTCs presented. There was no spark at the #1 plug, the tube was half full with oil. Replaced valve cover gasket, tube seals, plugs and wires. No spark.
Broke crankshaft position sensor receptacle while removing connector, replaced sensor. Still no spark, no codes. Tested starter due to never having heard car start, and was not impressed by sound of cranking. Starter and battery both checked sat.
No +12vdc @ coil with key on. Jumpered ASD relay, and saw +12vdc @ coil center pin. No start. Swapped horn relay (known good0 no start, no +12vdc. Fuel pump runs, pressure @ fuel rail. Voltage drop @ starter w/in limits. Replaced PCM w/ known good, no start, same conditions, no codes.
Timing belt is intact, pistons cycle with starter. If the presumed original timing belt (owner has never replaced belt since 75K), had jumped timing, I would expect to see an out of sync code> Nope
I've gone to alldata, as Haynes manual has no engine control info.I have schematics, have exhausted all troubleshooting ideas. Could the flywheel be worn to the point it is not spinning the engine fast enough, and setting an ASD shutdown command?
What parameters, exactly, cause the ASD relay to shut off? The owner really likes the car, which is in surprisingly good condition, and really can't afford to replace it now. All help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
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Thursday, May 14th, 2020 AT 1:30 PM (Merged)
Tiny
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What and where is the driver circuit? I replaced the coil
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Thursday, May 14th, 2020 AT 1:30 PM (Merged)
Tiny
KHLOW2008
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You did not mention anything about the Crank Position Sensor and from symptom description, that should be the component you should concentrate on to get the ignition coil signal. Btw was the ignition coil tested or substituted?
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Thursday, May 14th, 2020 AT 1:30 PM (Merged)
Tiny
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The coil and injector drivers are switching transistors inside the Engine Computer.

Is this a single or double overhead cam engine?

Caradiodoc
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Thursday, May 14th, 2020 AT 1:30 PM (Merged)
Tiny
JOHNK59
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Since there is no B+ at the coil, I have not considered the coil as a possible problem/solution. Both cam and crank sensors are new. I am pretty much clueless as to the purpose or operation of the ASD relay circuit. It looks like the PCM sends a ground signal to collapse the coil, but I don't understand the grounding circuit itself. I assume the ground circuit for the injectors is working, as there is fuel in the intake runners.
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Thursday, May 14th, 2020 AT 1:30 PM (Merged)
Tiny
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It is a double verhead cam engine 2.4 cyl standard transmission. I have 12 volts at the center teriminal connector going onto the coil and 12 volts on no1 primary terminal connector but no volts coming our of coil while cranking. How do I test the coil andinjector drivers and are they replaceble or is it best just to buy a new engine computer?
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Thursday, May 14th, 2020 AT 1:30 PM (Merged)
Tiny
KHLOW2008
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When the PCM is powered by the ignition switch, it would ground the ASD relay via connector C3 terminal # 2 (Dark Blue/Yellow wire). Check for continuity between the PCM and ASD relay for the wire.
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Thursday, May 14th, 2020 AT 1:30 PM (Merged)
Tiny
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I should clarify, ... The drivers are transistor circuits inside the Engine Computer. They aren't something you can replace or test. You found the 12 volt supply to the coils. The other end of each coil is grounded by the driver transistors. Current flows through those turned-on transistors and a magnetic field builds up slowly in the coil primaries. At the proper time, the transistors turn off and current flow has to stop instantly. That forces a rapid, sudden collapse of the magnetic field which induces the high voltage spark. If you are finding 0 volts on a coil wire, that circuit is likely working. The voltage only pops up to 12 volts for a few milliseconds. That's much too short to picked up by a voltmeter. If you find 12 volts on the coil wire constantly, that circuit is never turning on. The most likely cause would typically be the Engine Computer but it would be smart to measure the voltage on that wire at the computer's connector in case there is simply a break in that wire. A break in the wire will leave you with 12 volts on the coil wire.

The reason I asked about the engine is the symptoms you originally described match what happened to me on a single cam engine. When the timing belt jumps one tooth, the Check Engine light will turn on. When it jumps three teeth, the valves will hit the pistons causing major damage, but the computer will shut the engine down before that happens. If the belt jumps two teeth, that's when the computer stops the engine but you will often find one coil still firing intermittently.

A hard-to-find problem is a sheared off dowel pin between the camshaft and its sprocket. The sprocket turns a little on the cam mimicking a jumped timing belt. I never heard of that happening on the twin cam engine. Without doing other tests, it does sound like the Engine Computer needs to be replaced.

Caradiodoc
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Thursday, May 14th, 2020 AT 1:30 PM (Merged)
Tiny
JOHNK59
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C3-2 is unpopulated. Alldata shows ASD relay control leaving the PCM on C3-3, via a DKBLU/YEL wire which rings to E2 and E4 on the ASD socket. All the terminals on C3 for the ASD relay ring to the sockets they're supposed to on the relay socket.
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Thursday, May 14th, 2020 AT 1:30 PM (Merged)
Tiny
KHLOW2008
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Sorry for the typo, it should be C3 # 3. Do you have continuity between the PCM and ASD relay ( E2 of relay to C3 #3 of PCM)?
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Thursday, May 14th, 2020 AT 1:30 PM (Merged)
Tiny
BMICELI74
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  • 2003 CHRYSLER PT CRUISER
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While driving car just died. I have checked the codes and received a p0016 and p0325.I have replaced the knock sensor and camshaft position sensor and the codes cleared. Engine will crank but still not turn over. I smell fuel and hear fuel pump turn on. I partially removed the camshaft timing cover to verify the belt was attached. I had my wife try to start the car while watching the belt on the camshafts and the belt and the camshafts did not move. I was able to pull on the timing belt a little and it seems tight.

Help Please

Brian
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Thursday, May 14th, 2020 AT 1:30 PM (Merged)
Tiny
JOHNK59
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Everything I've checked has continuity from the PCM. C3 rings to E2 and E4 of the ASD relay socket, which I assume is the coil. The drawing on Alldata is a little confusing, as the coil resembles a resistor.
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Thursday, May 14th, 2020 AT 1:30 PM (Merged)
Tiny
RASMATAZ
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Go to this walk thru link: https://www.2carpros.com/articles/car-cranks-but-wont-start
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Thursday, May 14th, 2020 AT 1:30 PM (Merged)

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