Mechanics

NO CRANK, NO START

2000 Chrysler Sebring

Engine Performance problem
2000 Chrysler Sebring 6 cyl Two Wheel Drive Automatic 145000 miles

I've checked all of the fuses one by one and they are all good. The battery voltage is good. A friend was filling the AC system with the car running and the car just died. Just shut down, quit. Car will not crank, SOB! I jumped the starter with the key on and it cranked very well but no hint of starting. No spark or fuel. Is there an anti-theft module on this car and if possible, can I resink the modules with a scanner? I will have to borrow one. The instrument cluster says, " No bus.&Quot; VIN is 3C3EL45H4YT245468. It is a 2000 Sebring JX convertable. I also found out that the car had been in a major accident a long while back and was pieced together with another car! OOOOOHHHH BOY!
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Bralden
July 28, 2010.



Hi Bralden,

Thank you for the donation.

Getting a scanner to check for trouble codes would be a good idea before we continue further. If any codes are present, it may tell us what has gone wrong.

We shall start with the starting circuit first.

Are all the dash indicator lights showing?
Any lights flashing?

From the schematic, check if power is available at the starter relay terminal # 87, hot at all times and terminal # 82, hot in START pisition.


http://www.2carpros.com/forum/automotive_pictures/192750_Starting00SebringFig35a_1.jpg



http://www.2carpros.com/forum/automotive_pictures/192750_Starting00SebringFig35b_1.jpg


KHLow2008
Jul 29, 2010.
(1)I borrowed a tester from a friend but will not communicate with the car to retrieve any fault codes.
(2) the dash indicator lights are showing, i.E. Red oil cup for oil pressure, " Service Engine Soon" lights up after you attempt to start and release the key, that is when the window that displays the PRNDL shows up " No BUS, the fuel gauge registers 1/2 tank which is about right.
(3) Yes, the red wire from the Battery + post to fuse #8, to terminal #87 is hot all the time, yes terminal #83 gets hot when the key is in the start position. However, there is no response from the starter. The best way to describe this is like you have your gear shift lever in " R" or " D" or some position other than " P" or " N". Now, I have learned that by running a jumper wire from terminal #83-tan wire w/red stripe, to the ground stud on the left strut tower, then the starter will activate with the key as it should, but the engine still will not fire the plugs. I determined this by placing a new spark plug in the #2 wire and grounding the spark plug-no spark.
One other piece of trivia for you, I did get the original key and clicker for this car and I did lock and unlock those doors and deck lid a number of times just to be sure some glitch hadn't moved in while I used the other key. No difference, spin the starter for 3 or 4 seconds with the door closed, release the key, after a few seconds the service engine light comes on and the dash reads NO BUS. The same response I have been getting since last Tuesday afternoon, nothing I have done has made any difference.
Anti-theft device being down by the ignition switch. Allow me to throw this out to you-this car has a Sony CD player, I want to say aftermarket, installed. The other day when I was getting into it to start it up and charge the A/C, I noticed the face was hanging half off, loose, like it wasn't on properly. I heard it could be tied in to the anti theft system and causing a problem. I dont know if this could be cause for concern.

Tiny
Bralden
Aug 4, 2010.
The starter test indicates the engine computer (PCM) is not grounding the circuit for the starter relay to work.

The tester not communicating indicates the PCM is not sending any signals to it and it could be a faulty PCM or its wiring circuit.

SES indicator turning on could be due to above fault so we need to check why it is not communicating.

Does the CHECK ENGINE indicator light turn on for 2 seconds and goes off when ignition is turned on?

Seems this problem ia quite common for Chrysler vehicles. The security system could be the cause. I have sent some diagnostic files to you, let me know what you find.

KHLow2008
Aug 4, 2010.
I received your PDFs, everything looks great, thanks. I have already conducted most of the suggested tests, however, I will go back through them step-by-step as per their directions.
This item intrigues me-The starter test indicates the engine computer (PCM) is not grounding the circuit for the starter relay to work. I would like to find out-does the PCM ground externally as in through the case to a bold attaching it to the frame, or does it do it internally as in through the circuit board and out through another wire which itself grounds the PCM at a specific junction either on the frame or motor block, because I have been checking all grounds from the battery out. I ask this because I still feel I am dealing with a faulty wire somewhere.
The specifics of what voltage to expect to find at certain points is what I have been looking for. I still feel that I am dealing with either a broken ground wire or a blown fusible link somewhere in a harness tucked a way down under some least expected rock or fallen tree half submerged in swamp water. You've got to have a sense of humor to do this kind of work and still maintain your sanity.
Does the CHECK ENGINE indicator light turn on for 2 seconds and goes off when ignition is turned on? The " check engine" light never has come on during the whole time I have had this car. The " Service Engine Soon", white light, lower left hand corner of instrument cluster still comes on after you attempt to start the engine if the door is closed.
More than likely it will be tomorrow evening, before I have the opportunity to do any checking on these suggestions.
I will be back in touch as soon as I have something to report.

Tiny
Bralden
Aug 9, 2010.
I could not find any information pertaining to diagnostics of the starting system and the vehicle do have an immobiliizer system.

The PCM has a ground that is bolted onto the top of left front strut tower. For the starter to be grounded, it has to go through some components inside the PCM after all conditions for it to work are true.

Try grounding the Tan wire at the PCM terminal 31 to see if the starter cranks with the key. If it does not, you have an open in the circuit between the atarter relay.

Here are the description of the security system.

DESCRIPTION
Vehicle Theft Security System (VTSS) monitors vehicle doors, ignition switch, power door lock circuits and trunk key cylinder to determine if Body Control Module (BCM) should sound horn, flash interior lights and headlights, and disable ignition system. BCM inputs for VTSS are divided into 2 sections: trunk area and passenger compartment.

VTSS incorporates Sentry Key Immobilizer Module (SKIM) system. SKIM system provides passive protection against theft. SKIM system sends a signal to PCM to disable engine operation if proper key is not used. Reprogramming or initialization must be performed if PCM, SKIM or ignition key is replaced.

VTSS deactivates garage door opener and trunk release button when armed. System is passively armed by opening door, locking door using power door locks and closing door. While system is arming, VTSS LED will flash rapidly for 15 seconds. Opening any door or turning the ignition key while light is flashing will abort arming process. After 15 second arming period VTSS LED will flash slowly to show system is armed. System can also be armed using Remote Keyless Entry (RKE) transmitter or locking doors with key. System will not arm if manual door lock knobs are used to lock door(s). VTSS system uses a Light Emitting Diode (LED) to indicate when the system is armed. VTSS LED is located in instrument cluster. VTSS LED is also used by SKIM to advise owner when system has been immobilized due to use of invalid ignition key. VTSS LED will stay on after attempted restart if invalid ignition key is used.

VTSS is equipped with a tamper alert signal, indicating VTSS has been triggered (vehicle has been tampered with). When either front door is unlocked with key or RKE, the horn will sound 3 times, indicating vehicle has been tampered with.

OPERATION
Body Control Module (BCM) monitors all door switches for input status. On Breeze, Cirrus and Stratus, 4 door switches, one located at each door, are used for BCM DOOR OPEN input signal. On Sebring Convertible, 2 door switches, one located at each door, are used for BCM DOOR OPEN input signal. On all models, 2 arm/disarm switches are used in VTSS system and are located on the back side of the door lock key cylinder. These switches use internal resistors to send a signal to BCM when requested by the operator by selecting arm/disarm functions. A problem in any passenger compartment switch will not allow the system to arm.

BCM monitors trunk lock switch for a closed circuit. If switch circuit opens (trunk is opened or switch is removed), BCM triggers alarm. If there is a malfunction in trunk lock switch, system will arm, but switch will not be monitored. If switch becomes functional while system is armed, it will be used as an input to BCM.

SKIM system has 4 basic components: SKIM, sentry key transponder (key), VTSS light, and PCM. When ignition is turned on SKIM sends a Radio Frequency (RF) signal to transponder (key). RF signal excites transponder chip in ignition key and chip responds returning a RF signal with secret key code. SKIM compares code to information stored in memory to verify a valid key is being used. SKIM sends valid key signal to PCM. If wrong or new key is used, SKIM sends invalid key signal to PCM. PCM then disables engine operation by zeroing-out the pulse width of the fuel injectors. SKIM also sends signal to instrument cluster to illuminate VTSS light. Reprogramming or initialization must be performed if PCM, SKIM or ignition key is replaced.

KHLow2008
Aug 10, 2010.