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1998 Chrysler Concorde Auto Temp Control

Tiny
IMPALASS
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Hello -

Well I totally understand BG on the frustration. . .. . .. . .. . ..I am looking at couple of different manuals and sometimes they go in different directions. . .some areas you come across explain a lot. . ..some. . .it's just not there. . .. . .. . ..I am sure it is back to that. . ...you gotta have the right test equipment to check things out. . .. . .. . .but then last week I worked with someone who spent $600 beans at the dealer and they came up with sorry. . ..can't figure out your fuel gauge. . ..you must replace it. Well, we tracked wires to a connector over by the passenger door. . ...the dog gone thing was burn in half. When he told me I thought okay. . .. . .burnt. . .. . ...no. . ...he sent me some pics. . .. . .. . .now I gotta ask. . .how in the world can you have all that test equipment. . ..charge someone $600 dollars, say you gotta replace something and the plug is totally burnt and destroyed? I don't know. . ...he was on his way down to the dealer. . .. . .. . ..he was rather upset. . ..if it helps you any. . ...I ask him while he was shooting everyone to stop in the shop, pic up that code scanner we need, shoot his way over to the mail room and while they have him pinned down, boxed it and thrown it in the mail pile to me. . ...then throw the gun out and turn himself in and plead insanity. . .. . .. . .of course I then would forward the code scanner to you and we could get some progress. Well, I haven't heard from the lad and I haven't seen anything on FOX news. . .. . .. . ..soo???

Then the other problem is it seems things are all over. . .. . .. . .if you remember a few posts back that is what we ran into with finding the. . ..pull the mystery fuse and let it recal. . .. . .. . .wasn't even in the same areas as I had been.

I attached another couple of pics for you. . .. . .. . .. . .. . .. . .

Also, I just went through 3 pages of transmission wiring. . .. . .nothing about the trunk. . .. . .so that must go through the transmission module to the BCM.

Now when I review the info on the transmission park/neutral switch. . ..it also says nothing about this. So as you said. . ..it is a logic circuit that goes from the PCM to the BCM. . .. . ...

PARK/NEUTRAL SWITCH
The automatic transaxle manual valve lever position sensor supplies the park/neutral input to the power train control module. The park/neutral switch input tells the PCM whether the transmission is in Park, Neutral, or a drive gear selection. This input effects idle speed, fuel injector pulse width and ignition timing.

So I guess what I am saying is you may need to try to view this as a. . .. . ..things to do item so it doesn't stress you out. . .. . .. . .. . .. . .I think. . ..even with the owners manual you would be jumping around. . ..you may have more info. . ..but still jumping around.

You might consider talking to the folks you got the BCM from and see if they will extend or turn it in the purchase again if you feel you need it. At least they will know you are chasing a problem.

I still gotta wonder about the S204 splice though. That is between the JB and the Trunk release. That same splice is tied to the BCM and ATC. . .. . .
Did you have a chance to pull the wiring back on that and see if there was damage there?

To me. . ...I haven't seen it or defiantly have not been the one going through what you have. . ..but I would check that S204 really good before the diode. That is just me. . .. . ...but again. . ..you are the guy in the trenches on the front line here. . .. . ...so you know better than me.

Hey, don't get too down here. . .. . .maybe you need a night out with the wife, a good meal, a good movie. . ..and most of all some good buttered popcorn.

Don't let this get you down BG. . ...it's Christmas. . .. . .. . ...it is working in manual. . .. . .so maybe this is a project at this time. . .. . .. . ..not a quick fix. . .. . .. . ..

Again, if you haven't. . .. . .. . .. . ..that S204 is bugging me. . .. . ...

Hang in there. . .. . .. . .. . .. . ..


https://www.2carpros.com/forum/automotive_pictures/248015_Trunk_2_1.jpg




https://www.2carpros.com/forum/automotive_pictures/248015_Trunk_3_1.jpg



I also attached again all the goodies the BCM plays with.

Body Control Module
Notes

The Body Control Module (BCM) supplies vehicle occupants with visual and audible information and controls various vehicle functions. To provide and receive information, the module is interfaced to the vehicle's serial bus communications network (the Programmable Communication Interface (PCI bus). This network consists of the powertrain control module (PCM) , the memory heat seat/mirror module (MHSMM) , sentry key immobilizer module (SKIM) , the transmission control module (TCM) , the electro/mechanical instrument cluster (MIC) , the optional overhead travel information system (OTIS) , airbag control module (ACM) , optional anti lock brakes (ABS) and the optional automatic temperature control (ATC) display head. The BCM is operational when battery power is supplied to the module, ignition switch power is needed for ignition switched functions.

The body control module provides the following features:

Automatic headlamp and foglamp
A/C switch status / evaporator temperature status
BCM diagnostic support
Central lock and unlock (VTSS only)
Climate Control (Automatic and Manual) system support
Door ajar switch status
Door Lock Inhibit (key in ignition or headlamps/park lamps on)
Electronic Odometer Support
Fog Lamp Control
Headlamp multiplexing control
Headlamp, Park & tail lamps with battery save feature
Headlamp Time Delay
Illuminated Entry with "fade to off"
Interior lighting with battery save feature
Mechanical Instrument Cluster (fuel level, dim data, odometer & warning chime) support
Memory system (LHS and 300M)
Overhead travel information system
Power door lock multiplexing control
Rear Window Defogger Control
Remote Keyless Entry with Panic Mode
Remote power decklid release
Rolling door lock control (customer programmable)
Sentry key immobilizer
Speed proportional steering
Vehicle Theft Security System
Wiper Control (speed sensitive with return to park)
The BCM receives information over the PCI Bus from the PCM in order to support certain features. The required information is as follows:

Engine RPM
Engine Temperature
Injector on Time and Distance Pulses
Vehicle Speed
Charging System Failure, Engine Temperature Limp-In, VTSS Arming Status
Engine Model
"Check Engine" lamp status
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Monday, December 22nd, 2008 AT 10:01 PM
Tiny
LGB BILL
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I can definitely relate!

The gent who spent $600 should talk with the manufacturer's rep at the regional office before talking to the dealer. I'll bet that he'd get a much better reception at the dealer the next time around if he did.

I'm going to stop by the Chrysler dealer tomorrow and talk with the service manager. Up until now, I've always taken the car to the local Dodge dealer because my wife owns a Dodge Caravan and it's been very convenient to let them work on both. But thinking about the scan tool issue, I'm thinking that the Dodge guys may not have exactly what they need for the Concorde. I'm going to ask the Chrysler guy some very pointed questions and see what he/she says.

S204. I admit I haven't unwrapped the bundle where the splice is and put my eyeballs on it. However, I've measured continuity through it and I've checked for the correct voltage through it. In fact, I've checked the entire circuit from the fuse all the way to the connector where it enters the BCM, pushing the trunk release button and watching the voltage come and go. I honestly don't think it's the splice, my friend.

Manuals. I've written a feedback note to the office here in CA. As it turns out, they're not that far from me. If I don't see a response in the am, I'll call them and talk to them about the manual situation. You say you're using a and I can see the color coded wiring diagrams. A friend I talked to tonight said that he also has color coded wiring diagrams in his Mitchell manual. I'm really wondering whether or not the one they allow you to subscribe to is the same that they allow me to subscribe to. Is the DIY manual different from that used by the professional mechanics?

For $22 bucks, I think I'll order the diagnositic manual just to see if there's any possible help available in it for either the ATC issue or the trunk release issue.

Trans in Park signal. I looked at the transmission electrical schematics and see a switch system that indicates the condition of the shift lever. I was looking at the larger sized diagram last night and it was off the monitor. I'll print one at work tomorrow and see if there's any indication of how the BCM gets the signal.

The wife and I will most likely be taking in a movie this coming weekend. I'll get my popcorn fix then. It's been too long.

More to come, Sir.

BG
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Monday, December 22nd, 2008 AT 11:58 PM
Tiny
IMPALASS
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Hello -

Good point on the regional office instead.......I will look back through my posts and locate the lad and advise..... Thanks for that.

The Chrysler dealer....... Maybe they can give you an estimated rate and let them do the check. Me, I would ask to sign 13 waivers to be allowed to watch the test with the scan tool just to see how it does......... Of course if it is really simple and they call the janitor out from the back because he isn't busy, he hooks it up, hits a few buttons and is done..... That might make your want to put the cord around his neck.......

I actually went into Saturn several years ago and asked some questions and the service guy took me to the back, linked me with a tech and we spent about 15 minutes and he even went to a couple of cars to show and tell....... Wow.....I did write the Manager and give kudos...

You are the electrical guy in this one....... So I am with you on the S204.......

I can tell you honestly by the service manual I have for my car....... There is NO manual out there as detailed..... Even the one I use here.....I have it in about 6, 2 Â inch binders, each page in plastic so I can remove, put right there in the middle of the oil and goop, then wipe off and back into the binder.....

On that switch....... If you can....... Paste a copy so I can see where it is and compare...I didn't see anything on the 3 sheets I looked at....... Could have missed it but would like to see if you can.

By the way, you have a great Christmas....... You and the family...........
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Tuesday, December 23rd, 2008 AT 12:19 AM
Tiny
LGB BILL
  • MEMBER
  • 53 POSTS
Chrysler dealer field trip.

I talked to the Service Manager at the Chrysler dealership this am. Because I don't have the "relationship" with them that I do at the Dodge dealership, he indicated it would be an $85 charge to do the scan tool analysis. Fair enough. He indicated that he has two gents that he believes are really good with the electronic troubleshooting issues. One bothersome point is that he said they go strictly by the flow chart that runs the tech through the procedures, based on whatever codes are found. If I decide to go that route, I'd give them an extra 20 bucks on top of the 13 pages of waivers just to let me watch to see if there's really anything magic about this super-secret scan tool.

I tried to upload a good close-up of the switch schematic but the 2CarPros web site doesn't allow direct uploading. All images have to come from a publicly-accessible server. So, next best thing I can do is point you in the direction of where I found it. From the REPAIR area, go into the WIRING DIAGRAMS -ALL / WIRING DIAGRAMS option, then SYSTEM WIRING DIAGRAMS, then scroll down to TRANSMISSION CIRCUIT (2 of 3). You'll find it at the bottom of the page. By taping all three diagrams together, I can see that the signals go to the Transmission Control Module where the info is then sent via the PCI bus to the BCM. That's how the trunk release circuit knows whether the transmission is in Park or not.

Well. That throws a wrench into the spokes. I was really hoping it would be a simple power available/not available option via a wire that I could find and repair. NOOOO! It's gotta be the stinking PCI bus. Which talks to the BCM. Why do I keep coming back to the same conclusion?

Unless I can hijack myself a scan tool, it's looking more and more like a trip to the dealer will be the only way out of this mess.

Done today. Brain fried.

If for some reason I don't get to talk again before Santa shows up, I hope you and your Bride have a great Christmas!

Take care, Sir.
BG
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Tuesday, December 23rd, 2008 AT 7:48 PM
Tiny
IMPALASS
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Hello -

Field trips....... Didn't you love those as a kid?

That isn't bad.....$85.....I would definitely try the $20 dollar bribe, the waivers and possible even loan the first born.....(Though grown so they would give him back) but I would want to watch just for the education of the mystery scan tool. I think they actually bring them to the dealer in a Brinks Armored car each morning.........

Thanks for the info on the location of the wiring.......

Well, even the trip to the dealer.......I think you can honestly say you gave it your best shot... And the cost isn't that bad..... If they do say it's bad... You have one..... They can reprogram... You are good to go.

You too on the Christmas......... Just making sure....... Sent you a snail mail..... Did you get it? We will go to the farm tomorrow night....... Then part of the family comes to our house Christmas day....... So a couple days of eating, family/friend time and festivities.......

I will be looking for an update whenever it comes..... Be safe... Merry Christmas to you and your family.......
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Tuesday, December 23rd, 2008 AT 8:12 PM
Tiny
LGB BILL
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Hey, Bob.

I'm guessing next Tuesday will be the day for the trip to the one place in the universe where the one-and-only scan tool resides that is talked about so reverently in the maintenance manuals but no one has ever seen. We'll find out if this is just a big hoax or not I guess.

I'll send along the two BCMs in case they say it needs one. Hopefully, if that's the case, one of them will take care of all of these issues. I'm going to make a list of all of the problems the car is exhibiting so I can ask the service writer to have the tech looking in these areas and not just looking for some bland indication that I've got a turn signal out or something.

Sounds like a great time in store over Christmas. Where is the farm located from where you live?

Yes, I did receive the snail mail. I replied to the email at sbcglobal. Did you receive that one?

Interesting that your Bride's name is the same as my Bride's name. And that you work at a military base similar to what I did for 20 years.

Have a great time with the family this Christmas.

Blessings to you and your loved ones!

Bill
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Tuesday, December 23rd, 2008 AT 9:35 PM
Tiny
IMPALASS
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Hello -

Next Tuesday. . .. . .. . ...will be looking forward to some info on that. . .. . .. . ...I don't know about hoax or not. . .. . .. . .. . ..I have attached the current list of the Wonders of the World. . .. . .. . ..this scanner is there :)


https://www.2carpros.com/forum/automotive_pictures/248015_Wonders_1.jpg



Thanks again for the info. . ...sent you an email. . .. . .. . ...
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Tuesday, December 23rd, 2008 AT 11:19 PM
Tiny
LGB BILL
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We have a date!

I talked with the service manager at the Dodge dealership about all of the problems and he's certain he has a gent who can track it down. We talked about the fact that sometimes a code may not be set even with the system not working correctly. He understands that the scan tool is more than just a code reader and that it can be used diagnostically to look at component conditions throughout the electrical operations of the car.

Soooo. Next Tuesday am, I'll leave the car in their hands and will be waiting for a phone call from them. The service manager also told me to go ahead and bring the two BCMs in case the tech wants to swap one out for the original.

Until then, I'll just be making a list of all of the stuff that is acting up so the tech will have a starting point for his head-scratching exercises.

Take care, Sir.

BG
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Wednesday, December 24th, 2008 AT 11:01 AM
Tiny
LGB BILL
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BCM has been replaced.

AND THE TRUNK OPENS! :-)

AND THE ATC IS STABLE:-)

AND THE LIGHTS HAVE NOT FLICKERED! :-)

AND I NOW ONLY HAVE 43000 MILES! :-)

Well. At least that's what the odometer says.

I wasn't real sure they'd be able to fix it when I dropped it off this am. My regular service writer was off and I didn't think to ask to talk with the Service Manager. (REALLY SHOULD HAVE DONE THAT!)

In any case, they used one of the used BCMs I brought along and did everything and checked all of the issues. After replacing the BCM, the trunk immediately opened from inside using the button. That validated my belief that the BCM was to some degree involved in these issues.

Then, the tech checked the ATC and was only able to get the A/C system to mess up by wiggling the connector to the Blower Speed Control Module. At the same time, the courtesy lights came on too. He thinks that the speed control module and/or the blower motor might be going bad. He says that a lot of the time, when the blower starts acting up, it's a combination of the two parts. We'll have to wait and see.

He wasn't able to get the ATC to go into self-test and thinks it is the ATC head. If everything else is working, I won't worry about the self test issue.

After he stopped trying to break my blower speed control, he wasn't able to get the lights to go on intermittently any more.

When I picked up the car, the temp was set at 75 degrees. After a short drive and the system working well, I decreased it down to 74 and it stayed there all the way home. No blower speed excursions; no temp variations; no dumping out of auto into manual.

The real proof will be if we keep everything working the way it's supposed to and we don't slip back into our old ways.

With the success with this project, I'll get to try to help my daughter with a similar problem with her `04 Suburban. What the hey, huh? Why not put all this good knowledge to work?

Bob, I want to thank you very much for hanging in there with me through this ordeal and constantly giving encouragement and good ideas and advice. I plan to kick some more into the kitty and to write to Bob and Ken to let them know how happy I am with their service to the DIYer. The manual is a different story. We'll chat about that later.

I hope you have a great New Year and are healthy and prosperous in 2009!

Take care,
Bill
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Tuesday, December 30th, 2008 AT 9:14 PM
Tiny
IMPALASS
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Hello -

Well Praise the Lord. I think I actually hear the Vienna Boys Choir singing the Star Spangled Banner!

I like the 43000 miles too........... Okay..... Maybe not totally accurate but it looks good.

Wow, that is fantastic BG.......I think I am calling it a night and getting a pound of butter and some popcorn.........

BG - it's been great.......I truly have enjoyed working with you on this....... You have taught me a lot here.........I know the readers that have been following this have certainly gained some knowledge....... Thank you for the website again on the computer items.....

If you ever need us again......... You know where we are...........

You and Mrs CG have a safe New Year....... And good luck on that `04 Suburban... That should be a walk in the park for you after about 3 months of this.......

I know Bob and Ken will appreciate the donations and encouraged about how the 2CarPro website helps folks out......... You have been great.........

Don't be a stranger.......
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Tuesday, December 30th, 2008 AT 9:52 PM
Tiny
GUSTAVOC
  • MEMBER
  • 6 POSTS
I have the same problem except the control head doesn't show anything.
How easy is it to replace the power module? Is it located behind the glove compartment? I have no electric/electronic skills, do you think I can still do it?

(shop wants $1100 to replace both the power module and control head)

Thanks!
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Tuesday, January 6th, 2009 AT 6:53 PM
Tiny
LGB BILL
  • MEMBER
  • 53 POSTS
Hi Gustav.

I think we'd need more info to get you going in the right direction. Please respond with answers to the following questions:

1 - What is the year/make/model of your car?

2 - You say you have the same problem. Can you be specific? We covered a lot of issues in tracking down what my problem was.

3 - When you say "Power Module" which part are you specifically talking about? Is this the "Body Control Module", the "blower motor power module", the "Automatic Temperature Control (ATC), or something else?

Please understand that I am also a car owner and not a 2CarPros moderator, but I have a ton of experience in aircraft electrical systems maintenance and do-it-yourself car repair. If you don't have pretty good mechanical skills, this may be beyond your ability to repair.

Let me know what you've got and I'll try to help the best I can or I'll get the gent who helped me to help you.

Take care,
Bill
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Tuesday, January 6th, 2009 AT 7:10 PM
Tiny
GUSTAVOC
  • MEMBER
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Hello LGB Bill,
Reading back what I wrote I can see I left a lot out :) Sorry about that.

1) 1999 Chrysler Concorde 3.2L Auto Climate Control
2) The problem I have is that first the Head Control display stop showing everything. It is completely blank. However, the blower speed, temperature controls, etc, still worked, even though you didn't see anything on the display. After 3 or 4 months like this the blower suddenly stayed ON at maximum speed and wouldn't turn off. Controls on the head control no longer cause speed of blower to change. However, heater and ac are activated by the controls, as well as the direction of the blower.

I took the car in today and the diagnosis was that I needed to replace the Head Display and the Blower Motor Power Module. I really don't care for the display but they said they would only replace both of them, since they are not sure if the defect on the header display caused the the blower motor power module to fail.

Head Control (display): $350
Power Module: $350
Labor: $400

What do you think?

Thanks a lot for your help.

- Gus
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Tuesday, January 6th, 2009 AT 8:13 PM
Tiny
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Hi Gustav.

Bill is right on....... Please answer the questions he has asked and also the engine size in liter

Next, if it is drivable, please go to Auto Zone (AZ) or O'Reilly's (OR) and for FREE they can pull the codes to the car. Most important: Once they check your codes, if they find something and you don't get it fixed and need to get back with us, please make sure you tell us exactly what the code was, number and all. Example, if the code was E0568 O2 Sensor bad. Then make sure you give us all of that. While there for FREE also they can bring their tester out and check your battery and alternator.
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Tuesday, January 6th, 2009 AT 8:57 PM
Tiny
GUSTAVOC
  • MEMBER
  • 6 POSTS
Hi ImpalaSS,
The answers are in the post above.
I left my car today in a local shop for the diagnosis and they already got the code. I will get it from them and post it here as soon as I get it tomorrow morning.
Thanks!
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Tuesday, January 6th, 2009 AT 10:16 PM
Tiny
GUSTAVOC
  • MEMBER
  • 6 POSTS
Hi Bill and ImpalaSS,
I spoke to the guys in the shop where my car is now and they say the following:
1) There might be a loose solder point somewhere in the display, because they managed to make it light up again just by moving it.
2) The are no error codes showing - the fault in the blower power module is not being detected.
3) Total cost for replacing just the power module = $650

My question: would it be easy to buy the part and replace it myself?
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Wednesday, January 7th, 2009 AT 11:18 AM
Tiny
LGB BILL
  • MEMBER
  • 53 POSTS
Hi Gus.

I've seen posts where an owner was able to restore normal operation of the ATC head by tapping on it. To me, that indicates a poor connection somewhere. It could also be a bad solder connection as the shop indicates. The ATC head is very easily removed from the car and we can give you step-by-step instructions on how to do that if you decide you'd like to try it.

The Blower module is a different story. It requires lying on your side on the passenger side floor, pulling the carpet and matting back to make room, and then working in a very constrained space to remove the module. If you have a good selection of tools and the patience, you can do it. Of all of the projects that I attempted during my work getting my problems fixed, it is the one that I would not look forward to again. Everything else is a piece of cake.

I'm going to ask you to start up a new "Topic" for your specific questions. Bob will be happy to help you and I'll monitor and add my 2 cents worth as we go along. It's just better for 2CarPros and for Bob as the moderator if you have your own topic they can work from. Check out how the topics are titled, make sure your topic title is brief but descriptive, include your year and model of car in the title to help others. A

lso, keep in mind that a donation to 2CarPros will get you guaranteed assistance, where not donating may not. I'll help you as another owner, but Bob isn't obligated to necessarily.

Like you've discovered, this is a great area for do-it-yourselfers to find help. Your issues will eventually help someone else. It's how we can "pay it forward".

Where are you located?

If you are in Southern California, I'd be happy to help with your car when/if you decide to tackle the problems yourself.

Take care,
Bill
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Wednesday, January 7th, 2009 AT 11:36 AM
Tiny
IMPALASS
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Hi Gus

Bill has provided outstanding info for you.......

You may have to assist us with your mechanical knowledge so we don't get you in over your head.

The ATC and blower - just as Bill said.

Do you feel comfortable taking this on? Just let us know and we will provide some guidance.

I appreciate Bill suggesting a new topic......... The main thing here is as you see, all the advice and suggestions from the moderators or from outstanding customer support like Bill, your info would be lost in this post. Also, there may be some difference in the fix. Also it assists 2CarPro in keeping track of the vehicles/customers assisted.

We prefer you start a new topic..... If you can not, then that is okay as we can finish this one the way it is as we are here to help, and I don't think Bill minds giving a hand here. Gus, Bill really tore into his as you see by his post......... His experience will be invaluable.......

With the info provided........... Are you going to try this yourself and want some assistance or what is your direction.........

Thanks Gus for looking at the site.........

Bill - thanks a bunch for helping on this one...........I owe you a large buttered!

Just let us know Gus
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Wednesday, January 7th, 2009 AT 9:29 PM
Tiny
GUSTAVOC
  • MEMBER
  • 6 POSTS
Thanks for everything guys. Bill, thanks for your advise. I decided to cough up the 600 bucks and let the shop replace the module. The part alone is 375 at the Chrysler dealer. I know there are other cheaper parts from Delphi, but who knows if I would do it right.
Thanks a lot again.
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Wednesday, January 7th, 2009 AT 10:42 PM
Tiny
LGB BILL
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Hey, Gus!

You're welcome, Sir! I hope that takes care of it for you. Let me know how it turned out.

Take care,
Bill
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Wednesday, January 7th, 2009 AT 10:51 PM

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