2002 Mercury Sable Repair Question
2002 Sable Issue
My main problem is the car will sometimes stall after freeway drives. The other main symptom is at about 3200 - 3600 RPM on the freeway the car cuts out.
I took it to the dealer and of course they said the new fuel pump is bad and I should have one installed for $750 . The problem is I cannot see two fuel pumps failing in exactly the same fashion. And if it was a fuel delivery why does it only occur when hot. The pump isn't going to get hot, drop pressure, and then spring back to life all the way up to 6000 rpms.
I plan on changing the Oil and temp switches because I believe the problem is caused by some other components or connections that are failing when it warms up and it either opens the fuel loop or maybe is shutting the ignition off. I may also try the fuel cutoff switch in the trunk. Will also look for a fuel relay and replace it if there is one.
I have taken this car to the dealer and they said it needs a new fuel pump, and a new cam sensor setup, pcm reprogram, trans service, brake flush, and a brake inspection. HAHAHA
Its amazing. The tech had a p191 code and a p1233 code. I have literally beat this car into submission and no code. Seriously I can watch the fuel loop open three or four frames open the freeway no codes, when it stalls six times in a row at Idle after a freeway drive agian no codes. After I replaced each part and performance did not change and no codes. On two devices. No pending or anything. I did see the code after service looked at it so maybe they have a special tool that displays codes when no other tool will and then it allows both of your readers to magically read the code. Or they held the reset button\pulled a connection to generate the code. Of course resetting the code makes it go away and never come back.
I need to know if there is an RPM limiter that could be bad, if the transmission sensors can open the fuel loop or cut ignition systems, or if there is something else I can look at. I would really appreciate any suggestions.
There is a tech bulliten that may cover your symtoms exactly... it is as follows:
3.0L 2V GAS AND FFV - BUCK/JERK AND MISS DURING DRIVE CYCLE ABOVE 3000
RPM - NO DTC
TECHNICAL SERVICE BULLETIN
Reference Number(s): 05-22-12, Date of Issue: November 14, 2005
Related Ref Number(s): 05-22-12
BUCK/JERK AND MISS DURING DRIVE CYCLE ABOVE 3000 RPM - NO DTC - 3.0L 2V GAS
AND FFV ENGINE
Some 2000-2003 Taurus, Sable, Ranger vehicles equipped with a 3.0L 2-valve gas or FFV engine
may exhibit a buck*****/miss during drive cycles above 3000 RPM with no diagnostic trouble codes
(DTC's). A possible cause is the camshaft synchronizer assembly. Since the camshaft position (CMP)
fault monitor is not active above 2500 RPM, no diagnostic trouble code (P0340) is set during the
drive concern, thus making it difficult to diagnose the root cause component.
Use an NGS to identify whether or not the synchronizer is the causal component. Refer to the
following Service Procedure.
1. Select PID database.
2. Select "Fuel Priority" PID database.
3. Select KS1 and RPM PID's.
4. Capture data during drive symptom.
5. Using graph mode, display KS1 and RPM.
6. Look for knock errors which can be identified by rapidly rising peaks which correlate with
drops in RPM (Fig. 1 ).
7. If the synchronizer assembly needs to be replaced, follow the appropriate model year
Workshop Manual, Section 303-14, Electronic Engine Controls, Camshaft Synchronizer - 3.0L
(2V) Removal and Installation procedure.
Press Ctrl+F to find exact text
2000-2003 Taurus, Ranger
Fig. 1: Example: Actual NGS Display During High RPM Buck/Jerk Synchronizer Event
The knock sensor PID does not use a specific unit (although the NGS displays a "V" after the
numeric, it does not denote volts), the value displayed is strictly a number used to determine knock
status by the strategy. Typically, the number will be between 25 and 125 with no fault or knock
detected across the RPM range.
When the synchronizer fault occurs, the knock will increase rapidly, in most cases to its limit of
1023, but depending on the severity of the event, can range from the low hundreds to the 1023 limit.
The key to identifying the synchronizer issue is the knock PID near or reaching the 1023 limit. In
most cases of engine miss, detonation, etc. the knock will increase, but not reach 1023. Also note, if
the CMP sensor is disconnected (open circuit fault), the knock PID is not updated and the value of
the PID will be set to the 1023 limit.
WARRANTY STATUS: Eligible Under Provisions Of New Vehicle Limited Warranty Coverage
And Emissions Warranty Coverage.
2000-2003 Ranger 3.0L MFI: Perform Diagnostics
As Stated In Service Procedure, Then Replace The
Synchronizer Assembly (Do Not Use With 12362P,
12650D, 12650D81, 12650D60)
2000-2003 Taurus, Sable 3.0L MFI: Perform
Diagnostics As Stated In Service Procedure, Then
Replace The Synchronizer Assembly (Do Not Use
With 12362P, 12650D, 12650D81, 12650D60)
Basic Part No.
If you can check the rpm and knock sensor graphs while driving as it does it's thing!
18,145 answers provided
Thanks. I will see if I can figure out the setup on an Actron scanner I don't have the NGS.
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let me know..
18,145 answers provided
I don't think I can run this test with my scanner. I was going to just replace the Camshaft position sensor assembly however it looks like a bit more work than I originally thought. There is a plastic shroud that covers the wiring harness and I could not see a quick way to remove it. I didn't want to remove the air intake assembly to remove it until I could verify I had any gaskets (if needed).
In the interim I had read a remark about EGR related issues on a blog. So on a whim I performed the following.
I disconnected the vacuum line to the fuel rail pressure sensor from the EGR and plugged the line with a pencil. Absolutely no stalling after freeway operation and no stalling in the 3200-3500 RPM range in drive on the freeway.
Fuel pressure on the PID seems to be more consistent with brief rise in pressure under med-hard accelleration for a second and then it stabilizes, brief drops on decelleration and stabilizes. No low idle stall.
Leads me to believe the rail pressure sensor is bad, there is an incorrect vacuum from the EGR vacuum system to the rail the fuel rail could be clogged.
Leaning towards the first. Any suggestions
Seems to be drawing alot of air at idle. I'm thinking the vacuum might be okay. I read that disconnecting that vacuum should cause the pressure to run about 5 lbs higher. I did not see that happen.
1 question asked