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Short Circuit?

Tiny
MEL LONO
  • MEMBER
  • CADILLAC DEVILLE
Cadillac 1992 Sedan DeVille 158,000 V8 4.9
On turning key to start, only digital readings and Charge light illuminate. No start or engine turning over. Battery checked and reads 13 v on voltmeter. Recently rewired terminal connections to eliminate cause. Can cross solenoid and get engine turning over. Replaced solenoid a month ago. 2 weeks ago, I replaced the ignition module under the rotor (confirmed bad at parts shop). Car ran fine for 2 weeks (was smogged in the meantime, with new EGR and O2 sensor) then would not start after several stops and starts during the day.
Other recent repairs (DIY) Fuel filter, Fuel Pump, ignition switch (on column, not lock). Also bypassed VATS system 2 months ago after failure to start. At that time, all instruments lights would illuminate, but car wouldnt start. After bypass, no problem until igniton module determined faulty. Checked Fuses under dash (both sides) and in maxi-fuse/relay center in engine compartment. All good.
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Tuesday, October 16th, 2007 AT 3:19 PM

13 Replies

Tiny
MERLIN2021
  • MECHANIC
  • 17,250 POSTS
Check the fusible links at the starter.
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Tuesday, October 16th, 2007 AT 3:56 PM
Tiny
MEL LONO
  • MEMBER
  • 8 POSTS
Thank you! Sounds reasonable. If good, check relays next?
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Tuesday, October 16th, 2007 AT 4:03 PM
Tiny
MEL LONO
  • MEMBER
  • 8 POSTS
Did not see any fusible link at starter/solenoid. My Starter/charging wiring diagram (haynes) indicates that these were replaced in 1991 with a 30 amp at MaxiFuse 7, which is good. I traced purple wire from solenoid direct to Neutral safety switch. After that it gets complicated. Suggestions? Thanks.
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-1
Wednesday, October 17th, 2007 AT 2:14 PM
Tiny
MEL LONO
  • MEMBER
  • 8 POSTS
I checked all the fuses (again) and they're good. However, at the location under the glove box one 15A fuse terminal is reading 11.47v across the terminals with the fuse out and car key in lock. I dont have a fuse diagram for this box. Its in the top row, 3rd from right. Is this always hot or do I have a short in that circuit? Also the 25a in the same row reads 0.01v and the 10a next to the 15a(same row) reads 1.27v.
I havent checked the ignition switch again other than visually for connections and push rod movement since this was replaced (DIY) a month or so ago.
Yesterday, I replaced the battery cables to the alternator and Maxi fuse box. There was a bad splice leading to the fuse box. Got to have blown something, but I cant find out what. I'll make a donation when I get back on the road.
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Friday, October 19th, 2007 AT 3:41 PM
Tiny
MERLIN2021
  • MECHANIC
  • 17,250 POSTS
With the key ON when you cross the solinoid, does it start? If not try unplugging the Tach wire on your distributor.
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Friday, October 19th, 2007 AT 3:50 PM
Tiny
MERLIN2021
  • MECHANIC
  • 17,250 POSTS
What you described in your PM is the starter enable relay, you must have fried that!
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Friday, October 19th, 2007 AT 4:33 PM
Tiny
MERLIN2021
  • MECHANIC
  • 17,250 POSTS
Mel asks: Where is the starter enable relay? Is it a plug-in at the relay center on the passenger side?
Yes it is Mel here's a diagram


https://www.2carpros.com/forum/automotive_pictures/62217_Relay_center92_1.jpg

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Friday, October 19th, 2007 AT 5:23 PM
Tiny
MEL LONO
  • MEMBER
  • 8 POSTS
Replaced the starter enable relay. A bitch to get out above the BCM. Still no go. Feel like i'm missing something simple. Have had the battery neg terminal off several times lately. I'm not getting an E52 reset code anymore. Curious. Also, fuel reading is blinking E although I put 9 gallons in the tank the day the car failed to start at the curb. Recently replaced fuel pump. That began day one. Headlights and power locks work okay. Still no gauge lights on turning key to on, except charge light. Shift solenoid may be bad because I can move gear shift in ON without pushing brake pedal but cant see how that affects starting.
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Monday, October 22nd, 2007 AT 2:33 AM
Tiny
RASMATAZ
  • MECHANIC
  • 75,992 POSTS
The pass key2 decorder module behind the right front side side I/P at right schroud behind center, grounds the starter enable relay in order to power up the NSS and starter solenoid.

This decorder module goes nothing is gonna happen with the starting circuit.

Fabricate an inline 10amp fuse jumper now jump the pin2 and pin5 at relay socket did it crank over or the fuse blew.

Did you check fuse no.17 15amp at the I/P fuse block left side of I/P behind access door.
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Monday, October 22nd, 2007 AT 5:51 PM
Tiny
BMRFIXIT
  • MECHANIC
  • 19,053 POSTS
Also check the ignition cylinder and key
i had the same prob in my shop 4 days ago it was the ign cyl
not reading the pass2
changed the cyl key all ok

good luck
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-2
Monday, October 22nd, 2007 AT 8:05 PM
Tiny
MEL LONO
  • MEMBER
  • 8 POSTS
Thanks for the help. My 92 has VATS system. Two months ago I had a start/fuel disable problem. I found a fix online and bypassed the module by looping in the proper resistance to simulate the key resistance. Just about only part of the ignition system I havent changed is the key cylinder so I might as well. I did check the#17 fuse (many times).
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Tuesday, October 23rd, 2007 AT 7:48 PM
Tiny
MEL LONO
  • MEMBER
  • 8 POSTS
Good news. Got the deville started again, but for no apparent reason. Had a friend of a friend who's supposedly a good car electrical guy come by to see. He sits in the car, I try to start, still no lights no go. Third try, everything lights up and car starts. Again and again. Friend says its bad fuel injectors (1 or 8?). They act as little coils and if there is no feedback, no start enable. Either this guy has good car JU JU or I've got bad injectors or maybe still a short. No idea if they've ever been changed after 160,000 miles, but I'll be doing the screwdriver stethoscope trick.
Rasmataz, pass this to the pontiac guy. Merlin, I still owe you.
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Wednesday, October 24th, 2007 AT 10:09 PM
Tiny
CADIEMAN
  • MECHANIC
  • 3,544 POSTS
Fyi mel use your on-board cpu for checking codes. Push off and warmer buttons on the a/c panel. Hold them down until u see all segments light release. Then the codes will be on the fuel center.

Ty for using 2carpros
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Wednesday, December 21st, 2011 AT 11:03 PM

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